Did anyone else know that FSU had its own Engineering Science School that was established in 1962? It was discontinued back in 1972 due to, you guessed it, "budget cuts"?
As I understand it, there was a big movement by FSU back in the late 1970's and early 1980's to reestablish the FSU engineering program. However, FAMU jumped on the FSU engineering school bandwagon and essentially grabbed half the school away from FSU.
If the FAMU/FSU College of Engineering were to split, than FSU would simply be reestablishing a program that it already had by itself decades ago. And FAMU would be allowed to keep what it actually took from FSU in 1982.
But I find it very interesting when FAMU supporters say that FSU would somehow be "stealing" FAMU's engineering program by splitting the schools, when it was actually FAMU that "stole" half of FSU's engineering program back in 1982.
This post was edited on 2/9 1:28 PM by NoleOne
Posted on 2/9 11:13 AM | IP: Logged
Interesting - didn't know that.
Like the common misconception that FSU started a female-only school, this part of history is forgotten or overlooked.
For being a couple blocks from the capital building, FSU sure has had a history of getting the shaft.
Posted on 2/9 1:16 PM | IP: Logged
Yep.
Just look at the three hot topics at FSU: Engineering, Medicine and Journalism.
Engineering and Journalism were taken away by the Florida legislature.
Medicine? In 1965, instead of awarding the new medical school to the other logical university, Florida State University (remember 1851's West Florida Seminary [FSU] and East Florida Seminary [UF]), the Florida legislature awards it to the newly formed University of South Florida.
Heck, FSU was finally awarded a college of medicine in 2000 (albeit a stripped down version) when it should have received it back in 1965.
FSU has never been permitted to re-establish its Journalism program, has only been allowed to re-establish 1/2 of its engineering program, and has only been allowed to establish a stripped down a medical school.
Politics.
Posted on 2/9 2:09 PM | IP: Logged
Good work, Nole One. Keep 'em coming. Every FSU supporter should remind your state senators and representatives of this and the other facts.
Posted on 2/9 2:50 PM | IP: Logged
Nothing stopping FSU from asking for these things. Very often the folks I have spoken too in the past were HAPPY to have FSU in the situations it finds itself in. Nothing stopped FSU from asking to add research into it's med school....it certainly had the power to get it pushed through at points this past decade.
That said, great info and thanks for posting.
Posted on 2/9 6:51 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by DynastyNole: Nothing stopped FSU from asking to add research into it's med school....it certainly had the power to get it pushed through at points this past decade.
Wetherell, Thrasher, et. al were busy pushing through a chiropractic school initiative, though nobody on campus supported it! With legislators like that, who needs competition?
Posted on 2/9 8:08 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by DynastyNole: Nothing stopping FSU from asking for these things. Very often the folks I have spoken too in the past were HAPPY to have FSU in the situations it finds itself in. Nothing stopped FSU from asking to add research into it's med school....it certainly had the power to get it pushed through at points this past decade.
That said, great info and thanks for posting.
That may be true of the last ten years, but prior to that it was not. The fact of the matter is there has been a very deliberate effort on behalf of the University of Florida and their alumni to stifle the growth of FSU for close to 70 years. I do not blame them for all of our problems, but these facts cannot be disputed.
Posted on 2/9 9:28 PM | IP: Logged
Only one of the posts in this thread has even "skirted" the basic historic issue here.
A glaring and historically indefensible mindset that has carried over from the days of one State Senator Buckman, who was but one of the bigger sexists around at the time.
When you think about it, the State of Florida was one of the last to even create higher education for women, and when Buckman succeeded in pushing through his legislation creating the all female institution of higher learning, he narrowed the mission and the curriculum because the ladies were only going to go on and marry and become Mothers, so they didn't need to study the things that the men would study and succeed in for the rest of their lives.
I'm no card carrying feminist by any means, but we all know that many of the dimwits who now attend uf don't even know the history of the State's so-called system of higher education. What's worse is that some of the females of that species down there laugh when their male counterparts still call FSU a girls' school.
It's become an unspoken and underlying carryover and it's used to maintain an artificial gap. Ironically, if uf is so worthy of being at the top of the heap, you'd think they would be too busy to care if others were there as well. There's more than one place to stand at the top of a hill.
Posted on 2/9 9:44 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Originally posted by DynastyNole: Nothing stopping FSU from asking for these things. Very often the folks I have spoken too in the past were HAPPY to have FSU in the situations it finds itself in. Nothing stopped FSU from asking to add research into it's med school....it certainly had the power to get it pushed through at points this past decade.
That said, great info and thanks for posting.
That may be true of the last ten years, but prior to that it was not. The fact of the matter is there has been a very deliberate effort on behalf of the University of Florida and their alumni to stifle the growth of FSU for close to 70 years. I do not blame them for all of our problems, but these facts cannot be disputed.
Don't remember if I read it, or if I heard it, but Bernie Sliger said at the end of his tenure (which included the HUGE MagLab coup) that the two most important things to do at FSU were:
-Establish a med school -Re-establish the journalism school
There's no way that Bernie didn't ask for things.
TK? Yeah, he might have set us back a decade. But I really believe that Sandy did and and Barron is fighting the good fight for FSU...maybe not for all to see, but I believe it is happening.
Budget cuts are the goat of the day, so I can understand a lack of real traction with Barron's tenure. If my theory is correct, the real question is why hasn't the legislature supported FSU the way it has UF (and others more recently) despite being just 8 blocks away?
Posted on 2/9 11:26 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by goldmom: Only one of the posts in this thread has even "skirted" the basic historic issue here.
A glaring and historically indefensible mindset that has carried over from the days of one State Senator Buckman, who was but one of the bigger sexists around at the time.
When you think about it, the State of Florida was one of the last to even create higher education for women, and when Buckman succeeded in pushing through his legislation creating the all female institution of higher learning, he narrowed the mission and the curriculum because the ladies were only going to go on and marry and become Mothers, so they didn't need to study the things that the men would study and succeed in for the rest of their lives.
I'm no card carrying feminist by any means, but we all know that many of the dimwits who now attend uf don't even know the history of the State's so-called system of higher education. What's worse is that some of the females of that species down there laugh when their male counterparts still call FSU a girls' school.
It's become an unspoken and underlying carryover and it's used to maintain an artificial gap. Ironically, if uf is so worthy of being at the top of the heap, you'd think they would be too busy to care if others were there as well. There's more than one place to stand at the top of a hill.
As I think you pointed out several moons ago, Buckman was probably more than just a sexist...putting the all girls school right up the road so the legislators can "keep an eye on them" had some fringe benefits.
Posted on 2/9 11:30 PM | IP: Logged
As I think you pointed out several moons ago, Buckman was probably more than just a sexist...putting the all girls school right up the road so the legislators can "keep an eye on them" had some fringe benefits.
To what level has this discussion board degenerated? Am I the only one here who thinks it is absurd and distasteful to suggest that FSU (its historical entity) was located in Tallahassee to satisfy the Legislators' sexual proclivities? The conspiracy theorists are certainly alive and "well" here.
This post was edited on 2/10 12:27 AM by tallahasseejoe
Posted on 2/10 12:25 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe: As I think you pointed out several moons ago, Buckman was probably more than just a sexist...putting the all girls school right up the road so the legislators can "keep an eye on them" had some fringe benefits.
To what level has this discussion board degenerated? Am I the only one here who thinks it is absurd and distasteful to suggest that FSU (its historical entity) was located in Tallahassee to satisfy the Legislators' sexual proclivities? The conspiracy theorists are certainly alive and "well" here.
This post was edited on 2/10 12:27 AM by tallahasseejoe
Given the indiscretions that pollute that which we know as American politics, would you think that it is THAT much of a stretch? We in the Ivory Tower of the b-school don't talk about such things much, but that doesn't mean that they don't go on.
I've heard that Buckman was a pretty awful human, by several independent accounts. I believe one such account was by goldmom, who IIRC, had heard that this was one of the driving forces behind this move. Please do step in here, GM, if my memory is failing me...
Posted on 2/10 1:03 AM | IP: Logged
NM
This post was edited on 2/10 9:39 AM by Democratic Nole
Posted on 2/10 1:34 AM | IP: Logged
I don't know where some of you gather your information (please post links, if possible) but the Buckman Act was officially concerned with the growth of the state education budget and a multitude of competing schools all asking for increasing amounts of money. In 1905 the coeducational Florida State College was operated by President Murphree, who was an upstanding and motivated individual who was later appointed to the new school in Gainesville. The Buckman Act was a huge battle and Murphree was very disappointed by the law's enactment.
Really, to suggest the coed FSC was some manner of Legislative bordello has me wondering if some are still celebrating the victory over UF in November.
Posted on 2/10 5:59 AM | IP: Logged
This thread has taken an interesting turn: from the history of FSU engineering to a lecherous politician.
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe: As I think you pointed out several moons ago, Buckman was probably more than just a sexist...putting the all girls school right up the road so the legislators can "keep an eye on them" had some fringe benefits.
To what level has this discussion board degenerated? Am I the only one here who thinks it is absurd and distasteful to suggest that FSU (its historical entity) was located in Tallahassee to satisfy the Legislators' sexual proclivities? The conspiracy theorists are certainly alive and "well" here.
This post was edited on 2/10 12:27 AM by tallahasseejoe
Given the indiscretions that pollute that which we know as American politics, would you think that it is THAT much of a stretch? We in the Ivory Tower of the b-school don't talk about such things much, but that doesn't mean that they don't go on.
I've heard that Buckman was a pretty awful human, by several independent accounts. I believe one such account was by goldmom, who IIRC, had heard that this was one of the driving forces behind this move. Please do step in here, GM, if my memory is failing me...
T.Joe: My overall intent was not to steer the conversation in the way of some off color undertone, but to point out that in those days opportunities for women in higher education were severely limited in Florida, and there were none for persons of color.
Buckman was a powerful legislator who was also rock solid in his belief that a woman's place was always in the home and that black persons' place was out in the fields, sadly enough.
When winds of change were but a persistent breeze, he decided to make our University an all female institution because that way the legislature was close and could keep a paternal eye on young ladies who wished to become schoolteachers and nurses. Remember, women couldn't even vote at the time.
As for the children of freedmen, they were "allowed" to have an institution that would teach them agricultural and mechanical skills that would maintain their status as workers in fields or manufacturing that white power brokers determined were within their "limited" ability to learn. FAMU went on to become the school in Tally that offered medical training for a time as well as a College of Pharmacy. uf went on to become where the "men" went to major in the law, medicine, pharmacy, and business. You know, things that only a man can do, circa 1901.
There are some uf grads who cannot accept that the population has increased from just over a half a million in 1900 to over 20 million today. Simply put for the benefit of our hard headed friends from the Swamp, the State has outgrown the University System and uf can no longer be the lone wolf based on a historical superiority grounded in gender politics.
Posted on 2/11 4:55 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Originally posted by DynastyNole: Nothing stopping FSU from asking for these things. Very often the folks I have spoken too in the past were HAPPY to have FSU in the situations it finds itself in. Nothing stopped FSU from asking to add research into it's med school....it certainly had the power to get it pushed through at points this past decade.
That said, great info and thanks for posting.
That may be true of the last ten years, but prior to that it was not. The fact of the matter is there has been a very deliberate effort on behalf of the University of Florida and their alumni to stifle the growth of FSU for close to 70 years. I do not blame them for all of our problems, but these facts cannot be disputed.
I was in Tallahassee from 1969-1976. That was a period of growth for FSU, reaping benefits of the new law school, and other programs, (PIMS), the "senior college" model, etc.
The College of Education had graduate students, sent by foreign governments to study Special Ed, Leisures Services and Studies, and Educational Research and Testing. FSU was handpicked by Mrs. Sadat. Her plan was to build a town within Cairo to provide all the goods and services to the disabled"
The Brazilian government found the best and the brightest from their universities to send them to FSU to get PhD's in Educational Research and Testing. They were to go back to Brazil and work for the Ministry of Education.
There are more, but I digress.
The early 80's saw FSU performing arts students as the most represented university performing in NYC. At the time, it was over 750. (little tidbit here, the FAB was built with money from Helen Hayes and Charles MacArthur) or so we were told.
I have a gap from about 1990-2000, because I didn't pay attention to the academic side. Things seemed to be fine from afar. When I later inquired, I was told that the legislature had rearranged our programs of study, and that UF was behind it. (not surprising)
Since I started paying attention again, we seemed to have had a president that was more concerned with football than any elements of higher learning.
I happen to like alternative medicine, but when you need to strengthen your academic reputation, it's not a good idea to take that route.
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