First, while I shouldn't have to provide a warning message I'll do it anyways... this isn't a post intended to swirl up anything in terms of downplaying our current status and what the team has accomplished to this point in the season, so I just wanted to get that out of the way.
My father and I have lately been discussing, quite often actually (he's been a follower of the Tribe before Bowden's arrival), what the post-Bowden year(s) will be like in terms of how it might be handled and if the University already has a plan in place in preparation for the expected news whenever it happens.
My Dad imagines that Bowden, since he is the Father of what Seminole football is known for today, has basically created a "will" that illustrates what he would like to see happen to the program in the transitioning period of him leaving... I like this idea and find it somewhat comforting, however I also feel like FSU will attract some high-caliber coaching names out there (NFL and NCAA) and will need to address that appropriately too.
Your thoughts... and again, I'm not rushing the post-Bowden era, but since I discuss this with the pops occasionally, I wondered what the TCCL thinks too.
Thanks-
Posted on 10/6 10:48 AM | IP: Logged
I wish Bobby could coach forever, however, the end will come to us all some day. I see no reason Steele can't become head coach, Micky and the rest of the staff unless Coach Steele wants to make a change or two. As they say: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I'd add Lawrence Dawsey to the staff.
Posted on 10/6 11:09 AM | IP: Logged
I feel sorry for the guy that follows in his foot steps whoever it is.
Posted on 10/6 11:42 AM | IP: Logged
**this is assuming Steele is next head coach**
If Steele were to get the job, he'd do his damnest to keep together as much of the defensive staff he could. I have a feeling Mickey will exit with Bobby, so he'd have to either promote a coordinator (Haggins maybe) or bring somebody new in. If Mickey goes, I'd love to see him try and get Colzie to stay on/come back as DB coach. If I were him, I wouldn't want to change too much from a good thing.
On the offensive side of the ball, I'm sure he'd do what he had to for Lilly to stay. He's too good of a recruiter to lose. Other than that, I have a feeling he'd make some real changes to that side of the ball.
Posted on 10/6 1:59 PM | IP: Logged
The Post-Bowden era will be Dave Hart's big chance to really make his mark as an AD...As much as people would like to think Steele is the next guy, I still feel like he's going to offer some serious money to a big name out there.
This isn't to say that he won't eventually settle for Steele, but I believe he'll go after coaches who are currently successful head coaches first.
Posted on 10/6 2:05 PM | IP: Logged
This is a good topic for those of us used to sucession planning, it happens all the time in business. Would love to see Mickey get the head coaching job until he WANTS to retire, say five years or so after BB as it would provide defensive continuity which is how we win championships anyway. Then, transition to the new head ball coach by promoting from within, if possible. I think that under this scenario the "new blood" would be deferred for about 5-7 years, THEN, it would fall to the AD to build his empire, but not sooner.
Posted on 10/6 2:13 PM | IP: Logged
For several years, there's been an underlying rumor around that FSU (Hart) would never hire a Bowden replacement that didn't have head coaching experience.....
Posted on 10/6 3:28 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by PalmHarborNole: This is a good topic for those of us used to sucession planning, it happens all the time in business. Would love to see Mickey get the head coaching job until he WANTS to retire, say five years or so after BB as it would provide defensive continuity which is how we win championships anyway. Then, transition to the new head ball coach by promoting from within, if possible. I think that under this scenario the "new blood" would be deferred for about 5-7 years, THEN, it would fall to the AD to build his empire, but not sooner.
Palm,
Mickey is my favorite all-time FSU football coach, other than BB of course, but he'll be close to 65 when Bobby's contract runs out. Not saying he can't get it done at that age and I certainly don't want to be acccused of "ageism", but I just don't see it happening. It's a pretty short list of guys who got their first D-1 head coaching job at that stage of life. JMHO and definitely not a slam at MA.
Anybody who hasn't read Mickey's bio on this site should do so. He was a hell of an athlete back in the day. Ironically, since he's one of the greatest coordinators of the last quarter century, he was probably better known in college for his baseball skills!
Dave Hart's got a list in his desk drawer, you can bet on that. Every AD does, I would think.
This post was edited on 10/6 3:41 PM by GlassCityNole
Posted on 10/6 3:30 PM | IP: Logged
One of the first scenarios I envision is the message boards here melting down -- if alot of people have an opinion on Drew vs. X, then EVERYONE will have an opinion on who the AD chooses to follow Bobby. There's no way it's going to be kum ba yah time around here.
As far as promoting Mickey, that would be akin to when Dean Smith handcuffed UNC (by the timing of his retirement) into hiring Bill Guthridge as his replacement. Guthridge did a decent job, but he was unfit for many of the differences between serving as a high-level assistant and serving as the head coach of a legendary program. As such, I personally feel that if FSU is to chose an in-house replacement, it's more likely to be Steele than Mickey.
As for Steele, his head coaching resume is less than impressive (don't know if anyone remembers that he was crucified nationally for not taking a knee against UNLV when the game was decided -- his tailback ended up fumbling on the goal line, and UNLV returned it 99 yards for a touchdown and the win as time expires). Does his dismal record at Baylor mean that he wouldn't be a good coach for us? Of course not. But it does mean that it would take an AD with big stones to hire him to one of the most prestigious jobs in the nation.
So, I guess my answer would be that there will probably be two or three big name coaches that the AD (I hope it's still Hart) will go after. Hopefully he will not make a circus of the situation (if it's Hart I can almost guarantee that he won't) so he doesn't back himself into a corner if the big names say "no". If they do, and Steele is still here, I would imagine he then becomes the choice.
Obviously, this is 100% speculation on my part.
This post was edited on 10/9 12:54 AM by theFSUman
Posted on 10/6 5:06 PM | IP: Logged
By the way, I failed to mention that Tony Dungy is my dream replacement -- he's got an even keel, a killer defensive mind, the ability to turn the offense over to someone else, and his reputation would likely make him an ubelievable recruiter.
If Bobby is here 4 more years, then Manning, Harrison and the bunch will be on the tail end of their careers and I, personally, feel that the FSU job is as good or better job than coaching a smaller market NFL franchise.
Of course, I am a huge homer, and often have visions of grandeur...
Posted on 10/6 5:12 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by theFSUman: One of the first scenarios I envision is the message boards here melting down -- if alot of people have an opinion on Drew vs. X, then EVERYONE will have an opinion on who the AD chooses to follow Bobby. There's no way it's going to be kum ba yah time around here.
As far as promoting Mickey, that would be akin to when Dean Smith handcuffed UNC (by the timing of his retirement) into hiring Bill Guthridge as his replacement. Guthridge did a decent job, but he was unfit for many of the differences between serving as a high-level assistant and serving as the head coach of a legendary program. As such, I personally feel that if FSU is to chose an in-house replacement, it's more likely to be Steele than Mickey.
As for Steele, his head coaching resume is less than impressive (don't know if anyone remembers that he was crucified nationally for not taking a knee against UNLV when the game was decided -- his tailback ended up fumbling on the goal line, and UNLV returned it 99 yards for a touchdown and the win as time expires). Does his dismal record at Baylor mean that mean he wouldn't be a good coach for us? Of course not. But it does mean that it would take an AD with big stones to hire him to one of the most prestigious jobs in the nation.
So, I guess my answer would be that there will probably be two or three big name coaches that the AD (I hope it's still Hart) will go after. Hopefully he will not make a circus of the situation (if it's Hart I can almost guarantee that he won't) so he doesn't back himself into a corner if the big names say "no". If they do, and Steele is still here, I would imagine he then becomes the choice.
Obviously, this is 100% speculation on my part.
Excellent post. I wholeheartedly agree. I still believe that unless he has NFL aspirations that Jeff Tedford would be at the top of his list given his ability to develop talent and the fact that he's becoming a great recruiter and he'd had good ties for talent on the West Coast.
I don't expect Hart will make the same mistake with Richt that the Gators made with Stoops. The Gators just expected Stoops to drop everything and come to Gainesville and they got embarassed...twice...Hart will be much more discreet in asking Richt and Richt has too much respect for the program to try to publicize everything.
Posted on 10/6 5:14 PM | IP: Logged
As a Seminole trapped in Georgia Bulldog land, I can tell you the Bulldogs around here are very worried that Richt will leave Georgia when Bobby goes, if Richt is offered the job at FSU. And I think this is what will happen--I appreciate the thoughts that Mickey Andrews might become head coach, but to be frank I don't even know if he would want the job--follow up Bobby and potentially ruin his reputation as one of the best def coords of all time?
One of my buddies says "Mark Richt probably will never leave Athens--he is very active in his church." I just tell him, dream on, buddy.
Posted on 10/6 11:08 PM | IP: Logged
Well, here is how I would like to see it happen. Bowden wants to stick around for the 2007 season to get a shot at playing Alabama. His age is going to become a bigger issue every year in recruiting, so I'd like to see a succession plan announced. I think Mickey leaves when Bobby does, as mentioned earlier in other posts. I believe Richt will never leave Athens - the guy will not break his word or his contract. Announce that Steele will be head coach in 2008 and 2007 will be Bobby's last season. Recruiting keeps motoring along and I think we keep winning. Yes, that means the offensive side of the staff changes a lot.
Posted on 10/6 11:51 PM | IP: Logged
FSUman, a message board meltdown when this all happens... will FSU really be guilty of Alabama fans and their still long-time convinced mindsets that the Bear, somewhere, is still alive? Surely we're better than that.
Posted on 10/7 9:52 AM | IP: Logged
If Steele is hired, it will be after multiple others have turned down the job.
I think he's a good guy and a great LB coach, but most Noles really don't appreciate how bad Steele's Baylor teams were. They were bad even for Baylor.
Posted on 10/7 10:29 AM | IP: Logged
One of my friends (a Georgia alum) says Richt has a clause in his contract that gives him an out to leave for either Miami (where he played) or FSU. Whether this is true or just rumor I'm not sure, but I feel like I've heard that from a few people.
Whoever Hart picks, he'll have a load on his shoulders. Can you imagine following Bowden?
Posted on 10/7 11:21 AM | IP: Logged
Fusion-
I remember how awful Steele's Baylor squads were, very much so and really surprised too... and that's why I continue to be extremely pleased with how he has done (and continues to do) here at FSU.
Posted on 10/7 11:52 AM | IP: Logged
We need to remember, we are FSU, one of the premier programs in the country, and should never have to "settle" for anybody. I would imagine all of this is in the works now - maybe it has already been decided. I'm for hiring, say, a Tedford from outside the program -ie. someone with [successsful] HC experience. We should definitely not hire someone with the expectation of filling Bobby's shoes and continuing in the Bowden tradition [other than winning, that is]. There is no one on this earth who can do that. IMO, we can assemble a top-notch staff because we are who we are - the Noles!
Posted on 10/7 12:25 PM | IP: Logged
Talent levels and a winning traditions at Baylor and FSU would have a lot more to do with Coach Steele succeeding as Bowden's replacement.
Posted on 10/7 12:27 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by NOLEPCOLA: Talent levels and a winning traditions at Baylor and FSU would have a lot more to do with Coach Steele succeeding as Bowden's replacement.
Yeah, but there was a lot of poor coaching included in there. Not to say he wouldn't be a better coach at FSU, he would have to be...But you try introducing a LB coach with a 9-34 record as a head coach to replace your legend and see how much leeway the guy gets. The guy is a proven LB coach and recruiter...But the head man is a whole different story.
But Dave Hart has always seemed to be his own man to me and I doubt he'll pick anyone from this staff and I'm glad. I don't want to become North Carolina basketball where we are looking for coaches with Bowden ties and settling...That's what Florida did with Zook.
Posted on 10/7 12:45 PM | IP: Logged
I see Bobby and Mickey exiting together
Steele moves to DC and Richt comes back as HC
Posted on 10/7 12:50 PM | IP: Logged
Why is everyone so high on Tedford? I personally don't think too highly of the guy. I wouldn't mind seeing us go the Charlie Weis route with a guy like Childress from Philly. He'd be a great fit. People like to ogle at what Chow did with Bush, but how about what Childress has done with Westbrook? That guy is everywhere.
Posted on 10/7 12:53 PM | IP: Logged
Well Tedford has made everyplace better than he's been at and places like Oregon are still trying to recover from his lost. Plus he's got skills in the recruiting game and he's damn good offensive coach. The only guy who's proven he can beat USC in their current mode.
You list 10 coaches who have been better in the last three years. Take away USC and the guy has three BCS bowls and possibly an NC game.
Posted on 10/7 1:53 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by fusionole: If Steele is hired, it will be after multiple others have turned down the job.
I think he's a good guy and a great LB coach, but most Noles really don't appreciate how bad Steele's Baylor teams were. They were bad even for Baylor.
The two years prior to Steele they went 2-9 and 2-9. His last two years they went 3-8 and 3-9. In the two seasons since he left they went 3-9 and 3-8. This year they are 3-1 and probably don't have another win on their schedule. Not sure how you would consider Coach Steele's teams at Baylor "bad even for Baylor". Looks like he was pretty much status quo while there.
Baylors coaching legend was barely .500.
As to this conversation itself, I hope FSU hires the best guy for the job whether he has ties to the program or not. Who that is I have no idea.
A warning though for those who think FSU will be able to hire anyone it wants for the job. Keep in mind, UF has now set the going rate for a head coach with 4 years experience taking a job at a Top 10 program at $2 million+ per season. Anyopne who thinks we are getting an established winner (ie more than 4 years history as a winning head coach) for $2 million or less you are kidding yourself. And I have my doubts as to FSU being able to pay much more than the $2 million they currently pay their head coach. At least as we stand today. No idea what our financial picture will look like when that day actually arrives.
Posted on 10/7 3:07 PM | IP: Logged
I am actually more worried that Mickey leaves than BB, our great teams had great defenses, period. I can see Mickey leaving with BB as a loyal troop, but I would love to have him leave as its former head coach, two years as head coach then out. His defense alone would be worth it for a transition to an offensive coach for the head job. Say Steele as DC and Richt as head coach, as to the measly 2 MM, financial sanity will return as most aren't getting their monies worth now.
Posted on 10/7 3:27 PM | IP: Logged
Wait, I was thinking Petrino when I asked why everyone was so high on him. I REALLY don't like Tedford, and can't think of much worse than having a pac-10 coach take over the program.
Posted on 10/7 4:07 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by mduedall: One of my buddies says "Mark Richt probably will never leave Athens--he is very active in his church." I just tell him, dream on, buddy.
That IS funny! He was very active in his church in Tallahassee, too!
Posted on 10/7 5:26 PM | IP: Logged
I truly hope Hart doesn't go after the "hot coach". No one wants to be the man to follow the man so the thought we'll just cherry pick whomever we choose is just not true. I believe one of the reasons SOS didn'tcome back to UF was because of the unreal expectations of the fans and boosters. We can not fall into the same trap. I believe a plan is already in motion.
This post was edited on 10/7 5:49 PM by DFSNOLE
Posted on 10/7 5:48 PM | IP: Logged
I truely believe, that with success this year and the young talent we have on the roster, not to mention the fantastic talent that will come in this recruiting class, Bowden will be here(health allowing) another 5 years. That said, people we speak about now, might have taken jobs else where, like the NFL, or not be looking so good when the time comes we need to replace Bowden.
Posted on 10/7 6:09 PM | IP: Logged
I have no problem with Tedford. I think he would be good. I think Rich Rodriguez would as well. Now if you really wanna go all out and try to make a splash, find a way to get Gruden to leave TB.
Posted on 10/7 6:28 PM | IP: Logged
I believe that Coach Bowden's real strength is in his management ability, i.e., his ability to assemble top notch coaches and to manage the outcome.
I believe the structure is there for that to continue in the future. One need only to find that unique person with management skills that Bobby possesses.
I know the technical expertise of the present coaching staff but not how they manage people and that's the key IMHO!
Posted on 10/7 6:53 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by larandtra: I have no problem with Tedford. I think he would be good. I think Rich Rodriguez would as well. Now if you really wanna go all out and try to make a splash, find a way to get Gruden to leave TB.
See, I completely disagree with Rich Rodriguez. I don't like his offense. I just don't like "gimmicky" offenses. If I were a high school recruit, would I rather play for an option, gimmicky spread offense (WVU, UF, etc.) or an offense that more resembles that of the pro's (FSU, Miami, Georgia, etc.)? Most players go to college, especially at a major program with the ultimate goal of reaching the pro's. I'd rather have a coach who could put the players in the best position to win at the collegiate level as well as prepare the players for the next level. If I were a recruit, especially offensive, I'd really look hard at Notre Dame right now.
Posted on 10/7 7:07 PM | IP: Logged
Re: Post Bowden era... what scenarios do you imagine? Reply
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mduedall: One of my buddies says "Mark Richt probably will never leave Athens--he is very active in his church." I just tell him, dream on, buddy. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That IS funny! He was very active in his church in Tallahassee, too!
FloridaCracker--did you live in Tally when Richt was there? I did too, but didn't know anything about his habits.
Posted on 10/8 7:00 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by fusionole: If Steele is hired, it will be after multiple others have turned down the job.
I think he's a good guy and a great LB coach, but most Noles really don't appreciate how bad Steele's Baylor teams were. They were bad even for Baylor.
Well said. I would imagine there would be several high profile people ready to take the job.
Posted on 10/8 8:16 AM | IP: Logged
Maybe someone saved the link, but either Maisel or Wojiehowski (sp?!) did a story for ESPN.com about what was the best job in college football. They interviewed alot of coaches/people in the know and FSU came up as the slight #1 over UF.
Accordingly, it's going to take BIG STONES to hire Steele with a 9-34 record to be head coach. Again, I'm not saying it's the wrong choice, but I immediately think of Bob Davie and Bill Guthridge when I think of Steele as FSU's man...
Posted on 10/9 12:52 AM | IP: Logged
The good thing is that I feel quite confident that Bobby will give Hart plenty of notice...probably before his last season begings(though I'm sure it will be kept secret).
Posted on 10/9 5:22 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by LuLu1:
Originally posted by fusionole: If Steele is hired, it will be after multiple others have turned down the job.
I think he's a good guy and a great LB coach, but most Noles really don't appreciate how bad Steele's Baylor teams were. They were bad even for Baylor.
The two years prior to Steele they went 2-9 and 2-9. His last two years they went 3-8 and 3-9. In the two seasons since he left they went 3-9 and 3-8. This year they are 3-1 and probably don't have another win on their schedule.
Talk about bad timing.
Posted on 10/9 4:52 PM | IP: Logged
I believe that whoever gets hired will have connections to the program. I would like to see a NFL guy come down, much like Charlie Weiss did for ND. Who could that be?
Posted on 10/9 7:09 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by fsufelip:
Originally posted by larandtra: I have no problem with Tedford. I think he would be good. I think Rich Rodriguez would as well. Now if you really wanna go all out and try to make a splash, find a way to get Gruden to leave TB.
See, I completely disagree with Rich Rodriguez. I don't like his offense. I just don't like "gimmicky" offenses. If I were a high school recruit, would I rather play for an option, gimmicky spread offense (WVU, UF, etc.) or an offense that more resembles that of the pro's (FSU, Miami, Georgia, etc.)? Most players go to college, especially at a major program with the ultimate goal of reaching the pro's. I'd rather have a coach who could put the players in the best position to win at the collegiate level as well as prepare the players for the next level. If I were a recruit, especially offensive, I'd really look hard at Notre Dame right now.
I agree with your point here. Recruits will always like;
- national exposure and winning in college - being prepared to go high in the draft and play in the pros
The UM, FSU, USC, Georgia schemes fit these two objectives better than the WVU, Utah, UF, etc.
Posted on 10/9 8:03 PM | IP: Logged
Bowden ain't leaving until Paterno is gone.
Posted on 10/9 10:32 PM | IP: Logged
Here's the real deel!! It all hinges on Paterno. Bobby wants that record, so he won't leave until Paterno does. Then, he might also want to coach that Alabama game. With those two criteria out of the way.... he's gone, and..... Mickey gets the job. There will be major changes on the offensive side of the ball. JB won't be the OC. Others might leave. Steele is either DC or leaves. Mickey keeps on winning!!!!!
Posted on 10/10 5:34 PM | IP: Logged
Ever seen "Weekends at Bernie's"? Bobby can coach forever!
Originally posted by larandtra: I have no problem with Tedford. I think he would be good. I think Rich Rodriguez would as well. Now if you really wanna go all out and try to make a splash, find a way to get Gruden to leave TB.
See, I completely disagree with Rich Rodriguez. I don't like his offense. I just don't like "gimmicky" offenses. If I were a high school recruit, would I rather play for an option, gimmicky spread offense (WVU, UF, etc.) or an offense that more resembles that of the pro's (FSU, Miami, Georgia, etc.)? Most players go to college, especially at a major program with the ultimate goal of reaching the pro's. I'd rather have a coach who could put the players in the best position to win at the collegiate level as well as prepare the players for the next level. If I were a recruit, especially offensive, I'd really look hard at Notre Dame right now. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with your point here. Recruits will always like;
- national exposure and winning in college - being prepared to go high in the draft and play in the pros
The UM, FSU, USC, Georgia schemes fit these two objectives better than the WVU, Utah, UF, etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- I was throwing a name out there that had been talked about for a while. And I would rather have Rodriguez and his gimmick system, than Petrino and his questionable character and ethics any day of the week. I am sure that Rodriguez would change up to fit his players. I think Tedford would be a good guy because he runs a pro style offense that still relies upon a decent running game. Ferenz would not be bad, but, I think he is NFL bound soon. If Steele were not the guy, and I think he would be better than most think, I would like to see a high profile NFL assistant or even a NFL former/Current coach. I love Gruden, but, Not sure he could recruit in a kids home well. But, I know the kids would be prepared for the NFL, would run an NFL system, and would continue to play great defense.
Posted on 10/10 6:51 PM | IP: Logged
larandtra, I'm with you on most of that stuff. I really don't like Petrino. I don't want a pac-10 coach. I'd settle on Tedford.
If we don't get Steele I'd also like to see an NFL assistant come in. I've always mentioned Childress because I think he'd bring in a style the fans would really like. The Eagles offense is fun to watch, and I love the way he uses Westbrook. I also think Kubiak, Payton and Linehan are worth mentioning.
Posted on 10/10 7:33 PM | IP: Logged
I can imagine a lot, but nothing that could match reality. Who would have thought Coker would be so successful? Or how could Miami go through 5 changes and keep winning NC? No one planned that out. The jury is still out on Florida's great plan. If Mack won a NC in Texas, would he reurn to his alma mater? Would we want him? Alabama is still trying to execute their transition plan from the Bear. Auburn is still trying to replace Pat Dye. Georgia may finally have a replacement for Vince Dooley. They haven't replaced Dean Smith yet at NC. My point is this: the best plan we can have is to create the strongest Athletic Department we can, fiancially, ethically and consistent. That will attract the best people, players, coaches and staff to carry on what Coach Bowden has built. The truth is the vast majority of "succession plans" have failed miserably. You have to have institutional strength to sustain excellence, and some luck to transition from greatness. And don't forget what that great sage Ringo Starr said about plans to reunite the Beatles. "You can't reheat a souffle"
Savor this while you can. You may never see anything like it again.
This post was edited on 10/10 7:55 PM by nukemnoles
Posted on 10/10 7:53 PM | IP: Logged
felip- I agree on Childress. Love his gameplan.
Posted on 10/10 7:54 PM | IP: Logged
Nine rushes for 19 yards yesterday with an ailing quarterback?
I love what he does with Westbrook, but he abandons the running game regularly.
Posted on 10/10 8:46 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by PolkandBeans: Nine rushes for 19 yards yesterday with an ailing quarterback?
I love what he does with Westbrook, but he abandons the running game regularly.
He comes up with the game plans. Reid calls the plays.
Posted on 10/10 9:33 PM | IP: Logged
His gameplan needs to include more running play then.
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