What was the ranking last year? I thought that the general trend (which is more important) had been positive? If so, this is likely within the bounds of sampling volatility where a relatively small change in the rank is meaningless. For example, it is possible that a rank of 51 may not be statistically different from say 41 or 61.
This post was edited on 3/14 2:12 PM by tallahasseejoe
Posted on 3/14 1:40 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe: What was the ranking last year? I thought that the general trend (which is more important) had been positive? If so, this is likely within the bounds of sampling volatility where a relatively small change in the rank is meaningless. For example, it is possible that a rank of 51 may not be statistically different from say 41 or 61.
This post was edited on 3/14 2:12 PM by tallahasseejoe
While our competitions "volatility" continues to go up, we drop to a TIER 2 Law School. Embarrasing.
Posted on 3/14 2:16 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe: What was the ranking last year? I thought that the general trend (which is more important) had been positive? If so, this is likely within the bounds of sampling volatility where a relatively small change in the rank is meaningless. For example, it is possible that a rank of 51 may not be statistically different from say 41 or 61.
This post was edited on 3/14 2:12 PM by tallahasseejoe
While our competitions "volatility" continues to go up, we drop to a TIER 2 Law School. Embarrasing.
FSU was #50 last year. Tallahasseejoe is correct about the bounds of sampling volatility. In fact, our overall score rose from a 54 to a 55. Most of the stats went up as well. If we keep the general trend (which is more important) positive, we will be back up.
By the way, the second tier starts at #146.
Posted on 3/14 3:05 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe: What was the ranking last year? I thought that the general trend (which is more important) had been positive? If so, this is likely within the bounds of sampling volatility where a relatively small change in the rank is meaningless. For example, it is possible that a rank of 51 may not be statistically different from say 41 or 61.
This post was edited on 3/14 2:12 PM by tallahasseejoe
While our competitions "volatility" continues to go up, we drop to a TIER 2 Law School. Embarrasing.
I don't understand what you are saying. The volatility of the sampling is the standard error of the measurement. Can you simply answer the question I asked, "What what the rank last year"? I thought it was something like 48, but I honestly don't recall. If it was 48, a move to 51 it is within the bounds of the sampling error and the move is meaningless (if you don't understand why, trust me and be happy...or read the book "fooled by randomness").
Ah, I see Bat responded while I was typing my response. Thanks.
This post was edited on 3/14 3:54 PM by tallahasseejoe
Posted on 3/14 3:10 PM | IP: Logged
Much ado about nothing. Odd post.
Posted on 3/14 4:23 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Batnole1:
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe: What was the ranking last year? I thought that the general trend (which is more important) had been positive? If so, this is likely within the bounds of sampling volatility where a relatively small change in the rank is meaningless. For example, it is possible that a rank of 51 may not be statistically different from say 41 or 61.
This post was edited on 3/14 2:12 PM by tallahasseejoe
While our competitions "volatility" continues to go up, we drop to a TIER 2 Law School. Embarrasing.
FSU was #50 last year. Tallahasseejoe is correct about the bounds of sampling volatility. In fact, our overall score rose from a 54 to a 55. Most of the stats went up as well. If we keep the general trend (which is more important) positive, we will be back up.
By the way, the second tier starts at #146.
Yes and the second round of the NCAA tourney starts Thu/Fri. "Florida State drops out of the first tier and UF once again is the only tier 1 law school in the state" - Sun Sentinel
"As the only Tier 1 law school in the State of Florida...." - UF law site
Posted on 3/14 4:50 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by southflanole1: FURIOUS! EMBARRASSED! FSU law drops to tier 2 (#51). If Weidner can't keep us in the top 50, get him out of here.
Jesus man, have a xanax. I figure that's more appropriate than saying stfu.
Posted on 3/14 6:02 PM | IP: Logged
There is a lot to be concerned about at FSU, but the one thing I don't sweat is FSU Law.
Posted on 3/14 6:15 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by Batnole1:
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe: What was the ranking last year? I thought that the general trend (which is more important) had been positive? If so, this is likely within the bounds of sampling volatility where a relatively small change in the rank is meaningless. For example, it is possible that a rank of 51 may not be statistically different from say 41 or 61.
This post was edited on 3/14 2:12 PM by tallahasseejoe
While our competitions "volatility" continues to go up, we drop to a TIER 2 Law School. Embarrasing.
FSU was #50 last year. Tallahasseejoe is correct about the bounds of sampling volatility. In fact, our overall score rose from a 54 to a 55. Most of the stats went up as well. If we keep the general trend (which is more important) positive, we will be back up.
By the way, the second tier starts at #146.
Yes and the second round of the NCAA tourney starts Thu/Fri. "Florida State drops out of the first tier and UF once again is the only tier 1 law school in the state" - Sun Sentinel
"As the only Tier 1 law school in the State of Florida...." - UF law site
If UF is touting themselves as the only tier 1 law school, then they are misrepresenting the facts. If they want to say they they are the only top 50 Law School as ranked by US News, that is OK . . . but it may very well flip-flop next year since they are #48 and we are #51.
Posted on 3/15 10:36 AM | IP: Logged
Not my area of expertise, but there may be some confusion about the tier cutoff by the paper. Wasn’t it changed recently? I seem to remember a post about this last year. Seems to me that it was Top 50 for Tier 1, but now it may be Top 100, 125 or 150, no? I’m also not surprised that UF misrepresents their accomplishments. Didn’t UF’s Law School recently get in trouble for that as well?
Posted on 3/16 1:07 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Batnole1:
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by Batnole1:
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe: What was the ranking last year? I thought that the general trend (which is more important) had been positive? If so, this is likely within the bounds of sampling volatility where a relatively small change in the rank is meaningless. For example, it is possible that a rank of 51 may not be statistically different from say 41 or 61.
This post was edited on 3/14 2:12 PM by tallahasseejoe
While our competitions "volatility" continues to go up, we drop to a TIER 2 Law School. Embarrasing.
FSU was #50 last year. Tallahasseejoe is correct about the bounds of sampling volatility. In fact, our overall score rose from a 54 to a 55. Most of the stats went up as well. If we keep the general trend (which is more important) positive, we will be back up.
By the way, the second tier starts at #146.
Yes and the second round of the NCAA tourney starts Thu/Fri. "Florida State drops out of the first tier and UF once again is the only tier 1 law school in the state" - Sun Sentinel
"As the only Tier 1 law school in the State of Florida...." - UF law site
If UF is touting themselves as the only tier 1 law school, then they are misrepresenting the facts. If they want to say they they are the only top 50 Law School as ranked by US News, that is OK . . . but it may very well flip-flop next year since they are #48 and we are #51.
This has been said for years now, yet we never seem to pass them.
Posted on 3/16 7:02 AM | IP: Logged
FSU Law dropped from 50 to 51 tied with Tulane, SMU, Loyola of Los Angeles and Baylor, UF dropped from 47 to 48, Harvard dropped from 2 to 3. FSU Tax Law is ranked 23 tied with Duke but Environmental Law dropped from 8 to 6. A few top notch faculty at FSU were hired away by Vanderbilt, William and Mary, University of Chicago in last year or so.
Posted on 3/16 7:19 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by jimnole: FSU Law dropped from 50 to 51 tied with Tulane, SMU, Loyola of Los Angeles and Baylor, UF dropped from 47 to 48, Harvard dropped from 2 to 3. FSU Tax Law is ranked 23 tied with Duke but Environmental Law dropped from 8 to 6. A few top notch faculty at FSU were hired away by Vanderbilt, William and Mary, University of Chicago in last year or so.
Which faculty were hired away?
Posted on 3/18 9:10 AM | IP: Logged
It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Posted on 3/18 11:10 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
Posted on 3/18 2:06 PM | IP: Logged
J.B. Ruhl- Environmental Law hired by Vanderbilt; Tara Grove- Constitutional Law hired by William & Mary; Elizabeth Burch- Class Actions and Mass Torts hired by U of Georgia; Jonathan Kliick- Law and Economics hired by U. of Penn to name but a few.
Posted on 3/18 3:54 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by jimnole: J.B. Ruhl- Environmental Law hired by Vanderbilt; Tara Grove- Constitutional Law hired by William & Mary; Elizabeth Burch- Class Actions and Mass Torts hired by U of Georgia; Jonathan Kliick- Law and Economics hired by U. of Penn to name but a few.
Ruhl is a great professor. Burch was pretty good too. Unfamiliar with the other two. Who got hired at Chicago?
Posted on 3/18 8:09 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by southflanole1: FURIOUS! EMBARRASSED! FSU law drops to tier 2 (#51). If Weidner can't keep us in the top 50, get him out of here.
It doesn't really matter outside the T-20 what you are ranked. All law school are regional outside the T-20. Would we like to be in the T-50? Sure. Is it worth being upset about? No.
By the way, I was accepted to FSU Law, despite your efforts to thwart my acceptance. See ya in the fall
Posted on 3/19 3:25 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by xavierfactor09:
Originally posted by southflanole1: FURIOUS! EMBARRASSED! FSU law drops to tier 2 (#51). If Weidner can't keep us in the top 50, get him out of here.
It doesn't really matter outside the T-20 what you are ranked. All law school are regional outside the T-20. Would we like to be in the T-50? Sure. Is it worth being upset about? No.
By the way, I was accepted to FSU Law, despite your efforts to thwart my acceptance. See ya in the fall
How do you know this? How do you know its not top 25 as compared to 20?
Posted on 3/20 6:03 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Posted on 3/20 10:46 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by xavierfactor09:
Originally posted by southflanole1: FURIOUS! EMBARRASSED! FSU law drops to tier 2 (#51). If Weidner can't keep us in the top 50, get him out of here.
It doesn't really matter outside the T-20 what you are ranked. All law school are regional outside the T-20. Would we like to be in the T-50? Sure. Is it worth being upset about? No.
By the way, I was accepted to FSU Law, despite your efforts to thwart my acceptance. See ya in the fall
How do you know this? How do you know its not top 25 as compared to 20?
Employment data. NJL 250 data. It's really the T-14, but there's some exceptions like Vandy, Emory, WUSTL, and some others. Outside of these schools, everything is regional.
Posted on 3/20 4:09 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Posted on 3/23 6:05 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university. It is ranked among the best law schools at public schools nationally. It is statistically tied with UF as the best law school in Florida (for those who fail to understand this, you need pull out your stats 101 textbook and review the chapter on inference tests of survey data)...and you are suggesting its dean should be fired??? My guess is that neither this poster or the OP has ever contributed a dime to the College of Law's success. Go figure.
Posted on 3/23 1:00 PM | IP: Logged
or understand how law rankings work
Posted on 3/23 1:42 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university.
While that's nice for the Law School...that doesn't mean the overall Univ is harmed...as there are hundreds/thousands of more Univ in generally than there are Law Schools (i.e. much less competition in numbers of Law Schools vs Universities as a whole).
Posted on 3/26 9:12 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Knight_Light:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university.
While that's nice for the Law School...that doesn't mean the overall Univ is harmed...as there are hundreds/thousands of more Univ in generally than there are Law Schools (i.e. much less competition in numbers of Law Schools vs Universities as a whole).
If your point is that you can't compare the FSU law school rankings with FSU's university wide rankings, I don't agree. Because almost the majority of national universities in the top 100 have law schools (recall that FSU ranked 101 in the U.S. News ranking), the ranking comparison adjusted for those universities in the top 100 having law schools is valid. In other words, FSU's adjusted university ranking among national universities having law schools might be something like 70 compared to the law school ranking of 51.
Posted on 3/26 4:04 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
The point is, this isn't really a drop. Someone earlier pointed out that our SCORE actually improved. Dropping from 50 to 51 is not really a drop, it's actually staying pretty steady and, if you look at the trend, we are improving.
It comes down to this: if these were rankings, in order of year (oldest to newest), which set of numbers are better? (Note, these aren't actual rankings for anything, they are to demonstrate a point)
(A) does what you say you want, nothing but improvement. However, (B) actually represents a slightly higher ranked school by nearly any measurement (you can go by 4-year average, 5-year average, 8-year average, or just look at the trendlines), despite the fact that it's ranking dropped in some years.
Of course, in the grand scheme of things, those rankings are basically equivalent by most measures, really, but if you want to quibble about it,(B) is slightly ahead over the course of time.
The only disadvantage to the second set of numbers is that you have people who overreact at the slightest drop, even if the trend is increasing. Trends are what matter in the long-term. Your ranking in any one year isn't a big deal unless it is SIGNIFICANTLY different from your "normal" ranking.
Posted on 3/26 4:28 PM | IP: Logged
I don't know Law rankings, but losing quality faculty would seem to be a significant blow, right? That being said, 50 to 51 is splitting hairs. My department is ranked 28 and was recently told that Google and Microsoft Research view it as 2nd tier. Outside of the top 10-15 spots rankings become extremely generalized.
Posted on 3/27 8:58 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university. It is ranked among the best law schools at public schools nationally. It is statistically tied with UF as the best law school in Florida (for those who fail to understand this, you need pull out your stats 101 textbook and review the chapter on inference tests of survey data)...and you are suggesting its dean should be fired??? My guess is that neither this poster or the OP has ever contributed a dime to the College of Law's success. Go figure.
Pass123Over I want to personally appologize to you for the post made by this gentleman. Donating the largest student amount in the LS 3 years in a row from 2008-2010 during our Annual Drive and being part of the national champion Moot Court team equates to "never having contributed a dime to the College of Law's success... Go figure." The reason we dropped is simply b/c Dean Weidner decided to spend his time trying to become El Presidente of FSU rather than worrying about improving the CoL. Dissapointing to say the least, but once again Pass and I haven't contribute a dime, so what say do we have.
Posted on 3/27 2:16 PM | IP: Logged
soflanole,
I applaud your passion and your dedication to FSU. Wish we had a lot more Noles like you.
Personally, I cannot begrudge Wiedner for going after the Presidency of FSU. If that's the reason that we dropped, so be it.
It is disappointing to drop out of the top tier, but as many have pointed out, we were teetering on it anyways. Any idiot that chooses not to go to FSU because it went from 50 (or 49) to 51 in one year is a student I'd rather not have at FSU.
My perspective is that academia is a long-term establishment of legitimacy and merit. FSU Law has been steadily improving over the last 30 years, and I just don't see a need to read too much into this one year drop. Interestingly, I use law school ranking data as part of my dissertation, so I am very familiar with it. Long-term, FSU is doing VERY well with respect to our competition. Going at the current rate of improvement, I see FSU Law settling into the top-50 in the next 5 years, and staying there indefinitely.
My only concern is that FSU replaces, internally or externally, those outstanding faculty we lost recently.
Posted on 3/27 2:52 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university. It is ranked among the best law schools at public schools nationally. It is statistically tied with UF as the best law school in Florida (for those who fail to understand this, you need pull out your stats 101 textbook and review the chapter on inference tests of survey data)...and you are suggesting its dean should be fired??? My guess is that neither this poster or the OP has ever contributed a dime to the College of Law's success. Go figure.
Pass123Over I want to personally appologize to you for the post made by this gentleman. Donating the largest student amount in the LS 3 years in a row from 2008-2010 during our Annual Drive and being part of the national champion Moot Court team equates to "never having contributed a dime to the College of Law's success... Go figure." The reason we dropped is simply b/c Dean Weidner decided to spend his time trying to become El Presidente of FSU rather than worrying about improving the CoL. Dissapointing to say the least, but once again Pass and I haven't contribute a dime, so what say do we have.
If you've contributed and I've offended you, I apologize. My comment was meant as a generic "sigh" because so often those who complain do very little to support the cause.
Now, to the ranking issue. The move from 50 to 51 was very likely a statistical anomaly (and it pains me to hear it suggested otherwise). The ranking is based 40% on a survey asking law school administrators and lawyers their perception of the school. So, let's say we have a total population of 6 lawyers in the world (3 rate FSU at 10, 3 rate FSU at 9). Now the survey goes out, and US News samples 4 lawyers (3 rate FSU at 10; 1 at 9). This yields an average rating of 9.75. Now the survey is again taken the following year and the actual "true" perception of the population of lawyers remains the same; however, this year the sample of 4 surveyed changes and now (3 rate FSU at 9, and 1 at 10). This yields a rating of 9.25. (a drop in the rating from 9.75 to 9.50) when in fact nothing changed. Thus, my claim that small changes in the ranking are totally irrelevant. Any calls for Weidner to be fired, based solely on a move in the ranking from 50 to 51, are, well, totally uninformed and irresponsible.
I have no special allegiance to the law school. I just think those type of statements are incendiary and should be more carefully considered.
This post was edited on 3/27 5:39 PM by tallahasseejoe
Posted on 3/27 4:37 PM | IP: Logged
I think southflanole needs to learn how law school rankings work.
Posted on 3/28 1:15 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university. It is ranked among the best law schools at public schools nationally. It is statistically tied with UF as the best law school in Florida (for those who fail to understand this, you need pull out your stats 101 textbook and review the chapter on inference tests of survey data)...and you are suggesting its dean should be fired??? My guess is that neither this poster or the OP has ever contributed a dime to the College of Law's success. Go figure.
Pass123Over I want to personally appologize to you for the post made by this gentleman. Donating the largest student amount in the LS 3 years in a row from 2008-2010 during our Annual Drive and being part of the national champion Moot Court team equates to "never having contributed a dime to the College of Law's success... Go figure." The reason we dropped is simply b/c Dean Weidner decided to spend his time trying to become El Presidente of FSU rather than worrying about improving the CoL. Dissapointing to say the least, but once again Pass and I haven't contribute a dime, so what say do we have.
If you've contributed and I've offended you, I apologize. My comment was meant as a generic "sigh" because so often those who complain do very little to support the cause.
Now, to the ranking issue. The move from 50 to 51 was very likely a statistical anomaly (and it pains me to hear it suggested otherwise). The ranking is based 40% on a survey asking law school administrators and lawyers their perception of the school. So, let's say we have a total population of 6 lawyers in the world (3 rate FSU at 10, 3 rate FSU at 9). Now the survey goes out, and US News samples 4 lawyers (3 rate FSU at 10; 1 at 9). This yields an average rating of 9.75. Now the survey is again taken the following year and the actual "true" perception of the population of lawyers remains the same; however, this year the sample of 4 surveyed changes and now (3 rate FSU at 9, and 1 at 10). This yields a rating of 9.25. (a drop in the rating from 9.75 to 9.50) when in fact nothing changed. Thus, my claim that small changes in the ranking are totally irrelevant. Any calls for Weidner to be fired, based solely on a move in the ranking from 50 to 51, are, well, totally uninformed and irresponsible.
I have no special allegiance to the law school. I just think those type of statements are incendiary and should be more carefully considered.
This post was edited on 3/27 5:39 PM by tallahasseejoe
TallahasseeJoe, would you consider paying tuition and contributing to the annual fund drive each year "contributing a dime to the COL's success?" Talk about incendiary...your generic "sigh" based on pure assumptions is what is incendiary. Look at the crap storm you started.
Posted on 4/2 7:14 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university. It is ranked among the best law schools at public schools nationally. It is statistically tied with UF as the best law school in Florida (for those who fail to understand this, you need pull out your stats 101 textbook and review the chapter on inference tests of survey data)...and you are suggesting its dean should be fired??? My guess is that neither this poster or the OP has ever contributed a dime to the College of Law's success. Go figure.
Pass123Over I want to personally appologize to you for the post made by this gentleman. Donating the largest student amount in the LS 3 years in a row from 2008-2010 during our Annual Drive and being part of the national champion Moot Court team equates to "never having contributed a dime to the College of Law's success... Go figure." The reason we dropped is simply b/c Dean Weidner decided to spend his time trying to become El Presidente of FSU rather than worrying about improving the CoL. Dissapointing to say the least, but once again Pass and I haven't contribute a dime, so what say do we have.
If you've contributed and I've offended you, I apologize. My comment was meant as a generic "sigh" because so often those who complain do very little to support the cause.
Now, to the ranking issue. The move from 50 to 51 was very likely a statistical anomaly (and it pains me to hear it suggested otherwise). The ranking is based 40% on a survey asking law school administrators and lawyers their perception of the school. So, let's say we have a total population of 6 lawyers in the world (3 rate FSU at 10, 3 rate FSU at 9). Now the survey goes out, and US News samples 4 lawyers (3 rate FSU at 10; 1 at 9). This yields an average rating of 9.75. Now the survey is again taken the following year and the actual "true" perception of the population of lawyers remains the same; however, this year the sample of 4 surveyed changes and now (3 rate FSU at 9, and 1 at 10). This yields a rating of 9.25. (a drop in the rating from 9.75 to 9.50) when in fact nothing changed. Thus, my claim that small changes in the ranking are totally irrelevant. Any calls for Weidner to be fired, based solely on a move in the ranking from 50 to 51, are, well, totally uninformed and irresponsible.
I have no special allegiance to the law school. I just think those type of statements are incendiary and should be more carefully considered.
This post was edited on 3/27 5:39 PM by tallahasseejoe
TallahasseeJoe, would you consider paying tuition and contributing to the annual fund drive each year "contributing a dime to the COL's success?" Talk about incendiary...your generic "sigh" based on pure assumptions is what is incendiary. Look at the crap storm you started.
No, my comment was not incendiary. I quickly explained the context and apologized for the comment. Despite your deflection we all know the incendiary comment "which started this crap" was the OP's call for Weidner to be fired based on spurious data.
I happen to agree with DynastyNole's initial response: "Why post this?" Once again, although I have given financially to the law school, I am not an attorney and I have absolutely no allegiance to Dean Weidner.
Posted on 4/2 4:01 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university. It is ranked among the best law schools at public schools nationally. It is statistically tied with UF as the best law school in Florida (for those who fail to understand this, you need pull out your stats 101 textbook and review the chapter on inference tests of survey data)...and you are suggesting its dean should be fired??? My guess is that neither this poster or the OP has ever contributed a dime to the College of Law's success. Go figure.
Pass123Over I want to personally appologize to you for the post made by this gentleman. Donating the largest student amount in the LS 3 years in a row from 2008-2010 during our Annual Drive and being part of the national champion Moot Court team equates to "never having contributed a dime to the College of Law's success... Go figure." The reason we dropped is simply b/c Dean Weidner decided to spend his time trying to become El Presidente of FSU rather than worrying about improving the CoL. Dissapointing to say the least, but once again Pass and I haven't contribute a dime, so what say do we have.
If you've contributed and I've offended you, I apologize. My comment was meant as a generic "sigh" because so often those who complain do very little to support the cause.
Now, to the ranking issue. The move from 50 to 51 was very likely a statistical anomaly (and it pains me to hear it suggested otherwise). The ranking is based 40% on a survey asking law school administrators and lawyers their perception of the school. So, let's say we have a total population of 6 lawyers in the world (3 rate FSU at 10, 3 rate FSU at 9). Now the survey goes out, and US News samples 4 lawyers (3 rate FSU at 10; 1 at 9). This yields an average rating of 9.75. Now the survey is again taken the following year and the actual "true" perception of the population of lawyers remains the same; however, this year the sample of 4 surveyed changes and now (3 rate FSU at 9, and 1 at 10). This yields a rating of 9.25. (a drop in the rating from 9.75 to 9.50) when in fact nothing changed. Thus, my claim that small changes in the ranking are totally irrelevant. Any calls for Weidner to be fired, based solely on a move in the ranking from 50 to 51, are, well, totally uninformed and irresponsible.
I have no special allegiance to the law school. I just think those type of statements are incendiary and should be more carefully considered.
This post was edited on 3/27 5:39 PM by tallahasseejoe
TallahasseeJoe, would you consider paying tuition and contributing to the annual fund drive each year "contributing a dime to the COL's success?" Talk about incendiary...your generic "sigh" based on pure assumptions is what is incendiary. Look at the crap storm you started.
No, my comment was not incendiary. I quickly explained the context and apologized for the comment. Despite your deflection we all know the incendiary comment "which started this crap" was the OP's call for Weidner to be fired based on spurious data.
I happen to agree with DynastyNole's initial response: "Why post this?" Once again, although I have given financially to the law school, I am not an attorney and I have absolutely no allegiance to Dean Weidner.
You're deflecting as well. I cannot speak for the OP as to why he created this thread, but he is allowed to exercise his fundamental right to free speech.
Posted on 4/4 7:10 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Thugthrasher:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by CrazedNole: It's normal to fluctuate from year to year. Our overall trend is upward, I would only start to worry if we drop a couple years in a row.
Dropped two years ago.
And went up in the year between. Even just looking at just the last 4 years (which had 2 drops), the trendline is going up.
And to act like it's a major horrendous thing when your school drops out of the top 50 when you were sitting pretty at 50 is silly. It's not much of a difference in actual rankings, it's well within normal ranges of fluctuation (as others have said).
If we'd been consistently top 50 (particularly if we were consistently top 45 or better) and then dropped below that line for a number of years, it's one thing. But we weren't top 50 two years ago, we weren't top 50 3 years ago. Other than last year, when was the last time we were top 50? To get as upset as the OP is over a drop of 1 spot seems kind of overkill.
Sounds like the OP is satisfied with nothing but improvement and a drop in the rankings doesn't exactly show that. I tend to agree with him.
Hmmm...let me see. The College of Law is ranked substantially better than the university. It is ranked among the best law schools at public schools nationally. It is statistically tied with UF as the best law school in Florida (for those who fail to understand this, you need pull out your stats 101 textbook and review the chapter on inference tests of survey data)...and you are suggesting its dean should be fired??? My guess is that neither this poster or the OP has ever contributed a dime to the College of Law's success. Go figure.
Pass123Over I want to personally appologize to you for the post made by this gentleman. Donating the largest student amount in the LS 3 years in a row from 2008-2010 during our Annual Drive and being part of the national champion Moot Court team equates to "never having contributed a dime to the College of Law's success... Go figure." The reason we dropped is simply b/c Dean Weidner decided to spend his time trying to become El Presidente of FSU rather than worrying about improving the CoL. Dissapointing to say the least, but once again Pass and I haven't contribute a dime, so what say do we have.
If you've contributed and I've offended you, I apologize. My comment was meant as a generic "sigh" because so often those who complain do very little to support the cause.
Now, to the ranking issue. The move from 50 to 51 was very likely a statistical anomaly (and it pains me to hear it suggested otherwise). The ranking is based 40% on a survey asking law school administrators and lawyers their perception of the school. So, let's say we have a total population of 6 lawyers in the world (3 rate FSU at 10, 3 rate FSU at 9). Now the survey goes out, and US News samples 4 lawyers (3 rate FSU at 10; 1 at 9). This yields an average rating of 9.75. Now the survey is again taken the following year and the actual "true" perception of the population of lawyers remains the same; however, this year the sample of 4 surveyed changes and now (3 rate FSU at 9, and 1 at 10). This yields a rating of 9.25. (a drop in the rating from 9.75 to 9.50) when in fact nothing changed. Thus, my claim that small changes in the ranking are totally irrelevant. Any calls for Weidner to be fired, based solely on a move in the ranking from 50 to 51, are, well, totally uninformed and irresponsible.
I have no special allegiance to the law school. I just think those type of statements are incendiary and should be more carefully considered.
This post was edited on 3/27 5:39 PM by tallahasseejoe
TallahasseeJoe, would you consider paying tuition and contributing to the annual fund drive each year "contributing a dime to the COL's success?" Talk about incendiary...your generic "sigh" based on pure assumptions is what is incendiary. Look at the crap storm you started.
No, my comment was not incendiary. I quickly explained the context and apologized for the comment. Despite your deflection we all know the incendiary comment "which started this crap" was the OP's call for Weidner to be fired based on spurious data.
I happen to agree with DynastyNole's initial response: "Why post this?" Once again, although I have given financially to the law school, I am not an attorney and I have absolutely no allegiance to Dean Weidner.
You're deflecting as well. I cannot speak for the OP as to why he created this thread, but he is allowed to exercise his fundamental right to free speech.
along with his fundamental right to act like an idiot with no knowledge of how the process works?
Posted on 4/4 12:03 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
I cannot speak for the OP as to why he created this thread, but he is allowed to exercise his fundamental right to free speech.
What in the world does free speech have to do with a private message board?
Posted on 4/4 2:17 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Knight_Light:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
I cannot speak for the OP as to why he created this thread, but he is allowed to exercise his fundamental right to free speech.
What in the world does free speech have to do with a private message board?
I think I learned that in law school.
Posted on 4/4 9:13 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Knight_Light:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
I cannot speak for the OP as to why he created this thread, but he is allowed to exercise his fundamental right to free speech.
What in the world does free speech have to do with a private message board?
I think I learned that in law school.
Are you sure about that? His reaction to dropping 1 spot in the volatile USNWR rankings makes me think he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Posted on 4/5 7:53 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by xavierfactor09:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Knight_Light:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
I cannot speak for the OP as to why he created this thread, but he is allowed to exercise his fundamental right to free speech.
What in the world does free speech have to do with a private message board?
I think I learned that in law school.
Are you sure about that? His reaction to dropping 1 spot in the volatile USNWR rankings makes me think he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
National champion moot court. Once again pass I am sorry the constant flaming and degrading you are getting on this site for expecting more out of your university.
Posted on 4/5 1:46 PM | IP: Logged
Let's not cross the line here folks.
Posted on 4/6 7:23 AM | IP: Logged
As a member of the Charter Class of the College of Law, I will stay out of the Weidner discussion and post some positive news. The new Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court is a graduate of ther College of Law.
Posted on 4/7 4:11 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by LEGAL: As a member of the Charter Class of the College of Law, I will stay out of the Weidner discussion and post some positive news. The new Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court is a graduate of ther College of Law.
Wow, thanks for laying such a great foundation, Legal. My dad was not that far behind you. (Well, 6-7 years I guess, but over a 45 year period that doesn't seem like that much.)
I graduate next month. Man am I glad the places I am choosing between didn't see this new ranking before they extended their offers. You think I outta pull the trigger tomorrow before they find out I no longer attend a top 50 law school?
Posted on 4/8 10:34 PM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by GE Nole:
Originally posted by LEGAL: As a member of the Charter Class of the College of Law, I will stay out of the Weidner discussion and post some positive news. The new Chief Justice of the Florida Supreme Court is a graduate of ther College of Law.
Wow, thanks for laying such a great foundation, Legal. My dad was not that far behind you. (Well, 6-7 years I guess, but over a 45 year period that doesn't seem like that much.)
I graduate next month. Man am I glad the places I am choosing between didn't see this new ranking before they extended their offers. You think I outta pull the trigger tomorrow before they find out I no longer attend a top 50 law school?
I work for a mid size south florida firm 43 attorneys at our main office and believe me the managing partner (UF grad) has taken notice and yes I think you should pull the trigger prior to them finding out you now attend a tier 2 law school. Congrats on the offers.
Posted on 4/9 9:56 AM | IP: Logged
Why do you keep typing that #51 is tier 2?
Posted on 4/9 10:00 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by southflanole1:
Originally posted by xavierfactor09:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
Originally posted by Knight_Light:
Originally posted by Pass123Over:
I cannot speak for the OP as to why he created this thread, but he is allowed to exercise his fundamental right to free speech.
What in the world does free speech have to do with a private message board?
I think I learned that in law school.
Are you sure about that? His reaction to dropping 1 spot in the volatile USNWR rankings makes me think he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
National champion moot court. Once again pass I am sorry the constant flaming and degrading you are getting on this site for expecting more out of your university.
Florida Coastal has recently had a top 5 moot court. I bet that got them far.
Posted on 4/9 11:55 AM | IP: Logged
Originally posted by Batnole1: Why do you keep typing that #51 is tier 2?
1-14 Upper Echelon 1-50 Tier 1 51-100 Tier 2
The ranking changed the tier criteria recently, but this is what everyone still goes off on.
Yahoo! Sports
