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Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - Mac_Nole 2/26 10:28 AM (show all)  Views 2375
       This Has Been A Consensus Opinion For Years - an_angryblackman 12/2 12:23 AM
       Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - FSUFrank 10/7 8:22 PM
              Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - Helluvanengineer 10/7 10:08 PM
       Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - Bill From Tampa 3/1 8:33 AM
              Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - PoseidoNole 3/6 11:38 AM
                     Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - MrOsceola 10/12 1:12 AM
                            Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - ANoleFan4Life 10/14 11:43 AM
                     Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - tallahasseejoe 3/6 1:27 PM
                            Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - Thugthrasher 3/7 10:48 AM
                            Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - PoseidoNole 3/6 4:40 PM
                                   Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - Pass123Over 3/18 8:12 PM
                                          Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - GeauxNoles 3/22 1:05 PM
       Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - tallahasseejoe 2/26 1:12 PM
       Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - Brainstorming 2/26 11:10 AM
              Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - freak-of-nature 10/7 10:01 AM
                     Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - TheBrickhouse 10/9 12:19 PM
                            Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - Mac_Nole 10/9 1:18 PM
                                   Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - TheBrickhouse 10/11 10:24 AM
              Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - goldmom 2/26 1:23 PM
                     Re: Gov Scott - FL Universities need to stop competing w/ each other - Mac_Nole 2/26 3:45 PM

It is no big deal. The problem is how to go about implementing it. Florida has too few 4 year colleges for its population and geography. So, telling any set of universities that they can't offer a full range of programs is asking a region of the state to take a huge hit to its economic potential. The result would be how it basically is in Georgia. With the exception of Mercer in Macon (sort of), all of Georgia's better colleges and universities are in north Georgia (Atlanta, Athens and Augusta) and the rest of the colleges in the state only offer B.S. and a few master's degrees (in areas like nursing, business and maybe computer science) with no research. Result: the region of the state where the universities are is economically and culturally vibrant, and the region where they aren't depends on federal and state tax money being redistributed to them in order to keep from basically being a third world country.

Florida tried to address this problem on the cheap some years ago by allowing community colleges to offer some 4 year degrees, but it isn't nearly enough. What Florida needs is to structure their higher education system the way that California and some other states have. California operates the University of California which has the research and elite professional programs (i.e. medical and law schools) and has the famous campuses like UCLA and Cal-Berkeley, and also California State University that focuses primarily on undergraduate education (schools like Fresno State, San Diego State etc.) although even some of the Cal State schools are still allowed to have some pretty good programs like engineering, architecture, pharmacy etc. The University of California campuses are pretty evenly distributed throughout the state no one region of the state gets the shaft in terms of having a major research campus close by. The Cal State schools offer the same.

In the 90s, the state proposed a Tier system for the universities, but it was really a way to try to do what California did on the cheap. It was never enacted because no one wanted to be a Tier II and especially not a Tier III school, but even if it had been enacted, it still would have failed because a workable system would have required Florida to start more universities to serve as the undergraduate only Tier III schools AND fund all the Tier level schools with more money.  

Scott isn't trying to keep FSU from competing with UF. He is more concerned about USF, UCF and FIU competing with each other, and then with FAU, UNF, UWF competing with each other also. It's a legitimate argument on one hand, but again you be the one to go tell the good folks in Jacksonville to go without a state-supported engineering school. Tell them the great things that not having a state-supported engineering school has done for the economies of (again, looking at our state to the north) Columbus, Albany, Savannah, Augusta etc. Think about it ... Georgia used to have a ton of military installations. Had they planned ahead and put research engineering schools in Augusta, Macon and Columbus to take advantage of all that Cold War military research money, their economy would be a lot better and more diverse right now the way that California, Texas - and Florida - economies are. And the economic marginalization of "the rest of Georgia" is exactly what the people who have a state university in their region are trying to avoid.
12/2 12:23 AM | IP: Logged
Maybe if he would either give them adequate funding or let them raise tuition, this would not be an issue
10/7 8:22 PM | IP: Logged
As long as it gets Florida's Universities pulling in the best faculty and students in the nation, gain revenues off of research investments, sustains financially sound practices, and get's us to compete internationally, then I'm all for it.

If this is more about micromanaging the structure so that no-one succeeds and resources are too dispersed to become useful, then I'm ganna smack a governor.

Until then, probably best that I become better educated about the issue before I make a decisions.
10/7 10:08 PM | IP: Logged I don't that is even possible. Universities are always competing for students and always will. And to do that they have to attract the best profs and have the newest technologies/facilities (as best they can within a given budget).

Posted on 3/1 8:33 AM | IP: Logged

"We don't need to have 11 different places where you can get the exact same degree," Scott said at the Kravis Center."

This is the only quote from the article and I agree with this point whole-heartedly.

Posted on 3/6 11:38 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by PoseidoNole:
"We don't need to have 11 different places where you can get the exact same degree," Scott said at the Kravis Center."

This is the only quote from the article and I agree with this point whole-heartedly.
Why would you agree with this? Are you saying that each school should specialize and no school can offer the same degree as any other school?

So FSU becomes the arts school, UF is ag, UCF is engineering, USF is...I don't know....business..., etc etc?

There is a reason why we have regional schools in the state....so that students who can't afford to go away to FSU or UF can still study at a college that offers a reasonably complete degree schedule.

Scott wants to do higher ed on the cheap. He's all about cheap.

That's not what this state needs. Every state that invests heavily in higher ed sees a payoff. We need MORE money for higher ed, not ways to cheapen it up.
10/12 1:12 AM | IP: Logged

Rick Scott is a horrible governor, perhaps one of Florida's worst.  I still can't believe he isn't in prison for Medicare fraud.  And to think people voted for him.  It's absolutely embarrasing.  He barely won in a wave election year and I can't wait until 2014 to get him out.

But you can't let the legislature off the hook either.  This legislature doesn't want to fund our universities properly.  The man who is in line to be the Speaker of the House after Weatherford, Chris Dorworth, is sleazy and can't manage his own finances.  He shouldn't be managing Florida's. 

It's really time for a wholesale house cleaning in Tallahassee. 
10/14 11:43 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by PoseidoNole:
"We don't need to have 11 different places where you can get the exact same degree," Scott said at the Kravis Center."

This is the only quote from the article and I agree with this point whole-heartedly.



You may be right (the rest of us are unfortunately too human to know), but I'd suggest that the market should be the arbiter. If a program is consistently under-subscribed it should not continue to be supported, either at all or at past levels, from within the university. I don't want the governor, the legislature, or some outside board telling us that we need to produce 200 teachers at FSU each year (no more, no less), and zero teachers should be produced at N. Florida.

This is the "market" Rick Scott and the health care system has operated under (e.g., a Certificate of Need is required before a facility/program can be put in place). Look at how wonderfully that has worked for us.



Posted on 3/6 1:27 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by tallahasseejoe:

Originally posted by PoseidoNole:
"We don't need to have 11 different places where you can get the exact same degree," Scott said at the Kravis Center."

This is the only quote from the article and I agree with this point whole-heartedly.



You may be right (the rest of us are unfortunately too human to know), but I'd suggest that the market should be the arbiter. If a program is consistently under-subscribed it should not continue to be supported, either at all or at past levels, from within the university. I don't want the governor, the legislature, or some outside board telling us that we need to produce 200 teachers at FSU each year (no more, no less), and zero teachers should be produced at N. Florida.

This is the "market" Rick Scott and the health care system has operated under (e.g., a Certificate of Need is required before a facility/program can be put in place). Look at how wonderfully that has worked for us.



I would agree with this.
Some programs absolutely should be offered by all/most SUS schools (some of the Ed degrees, like you mentioned, would fall into that category).
Others, like Engineering/Medicine or some of the more specific programs, absolutely should NOT.
How popular/common the degree is should be a major factor in that. I'm sure there are others, but that's the one that comes to mind immediately.

This post was edited on 3/7 10:48 AM by Thugthrasher



Posted on 3/7 10:48 AM | IP: Logged

I was looking at it more from the standpoint of every State university getting its own Engineering School, for instance.

Posted on 3/6 4:40 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by PoseidoNole:
I was looking at it more from the standpoint of every State university getting its own Engineering School, for instance.


Southflanole1 is very knowledgeable when it comes to engineering schools. Love to see him chime in on this thread. Seems to be a very strong opponent of our COE with FAMU, but he continuously fails to articulate a legitimate reason to be opposed...

Posted on 3/18 8:12 PM | IP: Logged

President Jeb will fix everything in 2016

Posted on 3/22 1:05 PM | IP: Logged

Once again, Scott articulates his ideas very poorly. He is the "Master of Miscommunication." From what I can tell, he does not understand the competitive model that operates among (or within) universities.

In fact, I question whether he really understands the business model--recall that he operated in a highly regulated health care setting, which is not a free market by any stretch.

This post was edited on 2/26 2:37 PM by tallahasseejoe



Posted on 2/26 1:12 PM | IP: Logged

So a Rep is for less competition and price controls.


Where are the real conservatives of the world anymore?



Posted on 2/26 11:10 AM | IP: Logged

I agree with Mr Scott.

These are publicly-funded institutions thst are competing with each other, which ends up very taxing for the state and its coffers. Any econ professor will admit that this university arms race is a driving force in the ever rising cost of tuition. Every school constantly needs to be upgrading facilities, a new building here, a new intramural field there, to keep up with the Jones's. The kicker is that they're all apart of the same state university system!

This post was edited on 10/7 10:02 AM by freak-of-nature

10/7 10:01 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by freak-of-nature:
I agree with Mr Scott.

These are publicly-funded institutions thst are competing with each other, which ends up very taxing for the state and its coffers. Any econ professor will admit that this university arms race is a driving force in the ever rising cost of tuition. Every school constantly needs to be upgrading facilities, a new building here, a new intramural field there, to keep up with the Jones's. The kicker is that they're all apart of the same state university system!

This post was edited on 10/7 10:02 AM by freak-of-nature


Competition is GREAT for institutions of learning.

State universities compete with each other, make each other more efficient and differentiated. This has resulted in the US having by far the greatest system of higher education in the world. There is no close second.

Compare that to our non-competing K-12 system. Our system is terrible compared to our wealth, and certainly not up to par with other industrialized nations.

It is silly not to stick with the competition model, unless of course you'd like our universities to go downhill fast.
10/9 12:19 PM | IP: Logged
Brick,

I want to be sure - are you actually suggesting the current Governor of the great State of Florida doesn't exactly know how to manage universities?
10/9 1:18 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Mac_Nole:
Brick,

I want to be sure - are you actually suggesting the current Governor of the great State of Florida doesn't exactly know how to manage universities?

Hmmmmmm.
10/11 10:24 AM | IP: Logged He is?
That's just not how I read it.

Posted on 2/26 1:23 PM | IP: Logged

It seems to me Joe stated the issue quite well.



Posted on 2/26 3:45 PM | IP: Logged

What's the story on this? What does Governor Scott mean?

Link: Scott: Fla. Universities Need To Stop Competing...


Posted on 2/26 10:28 AM | IP: Logged

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