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Some good stuff there Noles 3612.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 8:00 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by noles3612:
Here is what amazes me when reading some of these thoughts:

1-He has gotten everything he asked for.  He has gotten a larger overall staff (not just football) and does have the indoor facility.  Hmmmm........  What top programs don't?  Think about that for a second.  He has asked for the NORM that you see at MAJOR programs.  By goodness, we sure as hell expect him to win EVERY game and will moan and complain if we actually lose a game because by all means no other program does.  So, its fair for us as a fanbase to have ENORMOUS expectations in results but we don't think it should be the same for a coach in contract length and payment?  Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves don't have these INSANE things Jimbo asked for.................

2-He hasn't won the national championship yet.  Well he is the 17th highest paid coach.  Ok, so what about the other coaches getting paid more than him (producing less) but get paid more.  Do I think he deserves to be paid the highest?  Nope, I haven't said that but it is comical that we as fans expect our program to be in the top 3 CONSISTENTLY but don't want to pay a coach of that caliber.  Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves too don't pay their coaches that well...........................

3-Is FSU a premier job?  Of course we all believe that for numerous reasons.  Do I think Jimbo is looking for a reason to leave?  No!  But why in the hell would you do ANYTHING to potentially push it in that direction?  Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves too don't have contracts longer than 4 years..............................

4-I agree the timing is questionable, but I also wonder how much more money FSU will be trying to negotiate IF (yep because we all want to pay only IF he wins it all) we go undefeated?  Would it be cheaper to negotiate now?  Not saying its ideal, but lets be honest.  Would it be?  Is it a gamble?  Sure it is, but it is going to be comical to watch people complain when we run the table and then the 4 million dollar contract gets thrown out whereas now it could be 3.1-3.5.  

I know I know, I am just an idiotic fan that believes Coach Fisher deserves too much money.  But, it is sad to see people literally support the coach if he ONLY wins every game.  How many coaches have done that consistently?  I guess everyone at their job today has 100% performance all of the time.  Must be nice, I just can't think of anyone (Bobby or Nick Saban) who won ALL of the time.  Yep, averaging 10 wins is average and nothing to be proud of.  I just wonder if USC would have fired their coach if he did that?  I wonder why Texas is upset with Brown?  I wonder why Florida is upset with Muschamp?  But its ok, lets make sure were demand our coach to PROVE his worth (only by demanding a national championship) yet paying him 17th.  Hell, some of you will think he won't deserve his contract if he loses one game a year!!!!!  Look in the mirror at yourself before you start beating your chest with demands please.  If you EXPECT FSU to be a national power, then you should 100% support paying a national power salary.
The point of the article was to essentially say Jimbo was unhappy for not getting a 5th yr extension. I simply pointed out all the FACTS in regards to the administration support football has received.

Believe it or not, coaches leave a school in the top 20 for another school usually due to lack of support, not a pay raise.

I know, I am a know it all...let me ask you this 3612, the coaches being paid 4 million or more all have at least one national title, now how do you justify RIGHT NOW, paying JF that much or more?

Oh and steve kindly point out what I posted that was not fact, instead of making a blanket statement.

Bottom line, the timing of the article is ridiculous.

This post was edited on 10/23 8:11 PM by Pben

10/23 8:08 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Pben:

Originally posted by noles3612:
Here is what amazes me when reading some of these thoughts:

1-He has gotten everything he asked for.  He has gotten a larger overall staff (not just football) and does have the indoor facility.  Hmmmm........  What top programs don't?  Think about that for a second.  He has asked for the NORM that you see at MAJOR programs.  By goodness, we sure as hell expect him to win EVERY game and will moan and complain if we actually lose a game because by all means no other program does.  So, its fair for us as a fanbase to have ENORMOUS expectations in results but we don't think it should be the same for a coach in contract length and payment?  Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves don't have these INSANE things Jimbo asked for.................

2-He hasn't won the national championship yet.  Well he is the 17th highest paid coach.  Ok, so what about the other coaches getting paid more than him (producing less) but get paid more.  Do I think he deserves to be paid the highest?  Nope, I haven't said that but it is comical that we as fans expect our program to be in the top 3 CONSISTENTLY but don't want to pay a coach of that caliber.  Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves too don't pay their coaches that well...........................

3-Is FSU a premier job?  Of course we all believe that for numerous reasons.  Do I think Jimbo is looking for a reason to leave?  No!  But why in the hell would you do ANYTHING to potentially push it in that direction?  Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves too don't have contracts longer than 4 years..............................

4-I agree the timing is questionable, but I also wonder how much more money FSU will be trying to negotiate IF (yep because we all want to pay only IF he wins it all) we go undefeated?  Would it be cheaper to negotiate now?  Not saying its ideal, but lets be honest.  Would it be?  Is it a gamble?  Sure it is, but it is going to be comical to watch people complain when we run the table and then the 4 million dollar contract gets thrown out whereas now it could be 3.1-3.5.  

I know I know, I am just an idiotic fan that believes Coach Fisher deserves too much money.  But, it is sad to see people literally support the coach if he ONLY wins every game.  How many coaches have done that consistently?  I guess everyone at their job today has 100% performance all of the time.  Must be nice, I just can't think of anyone (Bobby or Nick Saban) who won ALL of the time.  Yep, averaging 10 wins is average and nothing to be proud of.  I just wonder if USC would have fired their coach if he did that?  I wonder why Texas is upset with Brown?  I wonder why Florida is upset with Muschamp?  But its ok, lets make sure were demand our coach to PROVE his worth (only by demanding a national championship) yet paying him 17th.  Hell, some of you will think he won't deserve his contract if he loses one game a year!!!!!  Look in the mirror at yourself before you start beating your chest with demands please.  If you EXPECT FSU to be a national power, then you should 100% support paying a national power salary.
The point of the article was to essentially say Jimbo was unhappy for not getting a 5th yr extension. I simply pointed out all the FACTS in regards to the administration support football has received.

Believe it or not, coaches leave a school in the top 20 for another school usually due to lack of support, not a pay raise.

I know, I am a know it all...

Oh and steve kindly point out what I posted that was not fact, instead of making a blanket statement.

Bottom line, the timing of the article is ridiculous, all the storylines of the weekend, and this is what you get for your $99...?



The facts are that the CURRENT administration didn't give Jimbo many, if any of the things on your list of raises/promotions. So far, all they've done is say no. And then comment that they weren't looking at doing anything right now.

Then we have the ole Pben, make stuff up as you go BS again. Yeah, coaches NEVER leave a job for more money. And they certainly wouldn't consider not getting an extension to be lack of support.

I pointed out where you're fabricating stuff already. As I have previously on more than one occasion. Jimbo was ALREADY HCIW when WVU tried to hire him. He did NOT, leverage that into the HCIW title.

As for the article, bitch about Dot all you want, but a lot of fans appreciate what Jimbo has done and just this past Sat. he took a huge step in answering some questions, as he has done all year. People think it's time to stop screwing around with our future and show him both the support AND money that the lack of has caused coaches to seek greener pastures in the past.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 8:18 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by noles3612:
Here is what amazes me when reading some of these thoughts:

1-He has gotten everything he asked for.  He has gotten a larger overall staff (not just football) and does have the indoor facility.  Hmmmm........  What top programs don't?UF doesn't have an IPF

Think about that for a second.  He has asked for the NORM that you see at MAJOR programs.  By goodness, we sure as hell expect him to win EVERY game and will moan and complain if we actually lose a game because by all means no other program does.  So, its fair for us as a fanbase to have ENORMOUS expectations in results but we don't think it should be the same for a coach in contract length and payment?Outside of 3 or 4, every coach that makes more than him has accomplished more than he has. Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves don't have these INSANE things Jimbo asked for.................I haven't heard anyone say anything about getting things other programs don't have.  Not sure if you are arguing against yourself or what.

2-He hasn't won the national championship yet.  Well he is the 17th highest paid coach.  Ok, so what about the other coaches getting paid more than him (producing less) but get paid more.  What about it?  You really think its a good idea to base your contract decisions and terms to align with bad contracts and terms that other schools have entered into?  Great idea.  Do I think he deserves to be paid the highest?  Nope, I haven't said that but it is comical that we as fans expect our program to be in the top 3 CONSISTENTLY but don't want to pay a coach of that caliber.Who said we don't want to pay a coach of that caliber?  Was Jimbo a top three coach in the country last year?   Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves too don't pay their coaches that well...........................

3-Is FSU a premier job?  Of course we all believe that for numerous reasons.  Do I think Jimbo is looking for a reason to leave?  No!  But why in the hell would you do ANYTHING to potentially push it in that direction?  Yep, the national programs we compare ourselves too don't have contracts longer than 4 years..............................I don't know if this is a societal issue or what, but I see it all the time now.  People are so afraid of losing things or pissing somebody off that negotiation goes out the window lest we have to upset somebody.  I'm pretty sure Jimbo and Barron are grown enough to handle these things.

4-I agree the timing is questionable, but I also wonder how much more money FSU will be trying to negotiate IF (yep because we all want to pay only IF he wins it all) we go undefeated?What are you talking about?  His contract is guaranteed, he gets paid whether we win or not for the years on his deal.  I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that we should want to pay him whether he is winning or losing? Would it be cheaper to negotiate now? No.......If we gave him an extension last year we would be right back here renegotiating the deal again.....remember, 5 years is SOP. Not saying its ideal, but lets be honest.  Would it be?  Is it a gamble?  Sure it is, but it is going to be comical to watch people complain when we run the table and then the 4 million dollar contract gets thrown out whereas now it could be 3.1-3.5.You really think if we gave Jimbo 3.1-3.5 last year, and then he wins it this year, that we wouldn't be doing this dance again?  This is the crazy part.  We are supposed to do this every year by some people's measure, but then they try and argue that we should have taken care of it last year. 

I know I know, I am just an idiotic fan that believes Coach Fisher deserves too much money.Who called anyone idiotic?  You would probably find about 2% of people on this board that think he doesn't deserve more money.  Last year it was probably 50/50  But, it is sad to see people literally support the coach if he ONLY wins every game. I can only speak for myself, but I've supported him since he's been here and have been called a homer, blind, etc repeatedly last year.  That all stopped this year of course. How many coaches have done that consistently?  I guess everyone at their job today has 100% performance all of the time.  Must be nice, I just can't think of anyone (Bobby or Nick Saban) who won ALL of the time.  Yep, averaging 10 wins is average and nothing to be proud of.  I just wonder if USC would have fired their coach if he did that?  I wonder why Texas is upset with Brown?  I wonder why Florida is upset with Muschamp?This is not a good example for you.  Muschamp was given an extension and raise last year for no reason other than SOP and hubris.  Every person in that administration is kicking themselves for it, regardless how it plays out.  They are on the hook for more millions just so they can say we do it like everyone else.   But its ok, lets make sure were demand our coach to PROVE his worth (only by demanding a national championship) yet paying him 17th.What job do you know of that pays people at the top of their profession without having proven they can take the company there? Hell, some of you will think he won't deserve his contract if he loses one game a year!!!!! I'm sure there will be some, likely around 1% Look in the mirror at yourself before you start beating your chest with demands please.Demands?  "time to pay the man" seems much more a demand than saying if he produces like a top 5 coach he'll get paid as one.  If you EXPECT FSU to be a national power, then you should 100% support paying a national power salary.Who doesn't support that?  
10/23 8:19 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by SavageSteve:

Originally posted by jhtally04:

Giving Jimbo another year last would have accomplished nothing. FSU is not going to be renewing contracts every year. Jimbo knows if he indeed calls this his dream job and we keep having success FSU will pay him and give him more years. Nothing to worry about here.



It actually would have accomplished something. But that doesn't mean it was necessary.

There probably is nothing to worry about, but that's assuming we pay him what he's worth after this season. At this point, that's only an assumption though.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


It's a very likely assumption and when two members of the board of trustees are quoted in the media as saying as much it pretty much moves it closer to gauranteed than assumption.
10/23 8:22 PM | IP: Logged

I agree with Dot, 3612 and tennisump.  Jimbo has made us relevant again and done everything the right way.  I for one do not want to lose him and would absolutely increase my Booster contribution.
10/23 8:22 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by vanole35:


Originally posted by SavageSteve:

Originally posted by jhtally04:

Giving Jimbo another year last would have accomplished nothing. FSU is not going to be renewing contracts every year. Jimbo knows if he indeed calls this his dream job and we keep having success FSU will pay him and give him more years. Nothing to worry about here.



It actually would have accomplished something. But that doesn't mean it was necessary.

There probably is nothing to worry about, but that's assuming we pay him what he's worth after this season. At this point, that's only an assumption though.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


It's a very likely assumption and when two members of the board of trustees are quoted in the media as saying as much it pretty much moves it closer to gauranteed than assumption.



I don't disagree. And I'm fine with that.

I will say though, I believe there was once a BOT member that went to Dot with quotes about interest in the Big 12, that Barron squashed pretty quickly. And I believe that same guy was quoted here.

That said, I think/hope you're probably right. But like Dot's article says, it's time. Whether it was after last season or not, it is now.

If we finish this season with one or no losses and don't extend Jimbo's contract, what would your opinion be?

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 8:28 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by runningnole:

I agree with Dot, 3612 and tennisump.  Jimbo has made us relevant again and done everything the right way.  I for one do not want to lose him and would absolutely increase my Booster contribution.



And on the flip side, if they were to try and play hardball and they lost him, many would make their displeasure known. In financial ways.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 8:31 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by 10thSFGNole:
He's earned it. Pay the man.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





+100
10/23 8:32 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by SavageSteve:




Originally posted by jhtally04:

Giving Jimbo another year last would have accomplished nothing. FSU is not going to be renewing contracts every year. Jimbo knows if he indeed calls this his dream job and we keep having success FSU will pay him and give him more years. Nothing to worry about here.





It actually would have accomplished something. But that doesn't mean it was necessary.

There probably is nothing to worry about, but that's assuming we pay him what he's worth after this season. At this point, that's only an assumption though.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





In the grand scheme of contract discussions I disagree. Say he got another year big deal. If we finish this season like we hope we do the talk would turn to Jimbo needs another 5 years. You and I both know Jimbo is going to be given a very nice extension and raise on the horizon there is nothing to worry about.
10/23 8:36 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by jhtally04:



Originally posted by SavageSteve:




Originally posted by jhtally04:

Giving Jimbo another year last would have accomplished nothing. FSU is not going to be renewing contracts every year. Jimbo knows if he indeed calls this his dream job and we keep having success FSU will pay him and give him more years. Nothing to worry about here.





It actually would have accomplished something. But that doesn't mean it was necessary.

There probably is nothing to worry about, but that's assuming we pay him what he's worth after this season. At this point, that's only an assumption though.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





In the grand scheme of contract discussions I disagree. Say he got another year big deal. If we finish this season like we hope we do the talk would turn to Jimbo needs another 5 years. You and I both know Jimbo is going to be given a very nice extension and raise on the horizon there is nothing to worry about.



Ha. One of us knows it. One of us thinks it and is still a little nervous until it happens.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 8:40 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by SavageSteve:

Originally posted by vanole35:


Originally posted by SavageSteve:

Originally posted by jhtally04:

Giving Jimbo another year last would have accomplished nothing. FSU is not going to be renewing contracts every year. Jimbo knows if he indeed calls this his dream job and we keep having success FSU will pay him and give him more years. Nothing to worry about here.



It actually would have accomplished something. But that doesn't mean it was necessary.

There probably is nothing to worry about, but that's assuming we pay him what he's worth after this season. At this point, that's only an assumption though.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


It's a very likely assumption and when two members of the board of trustees are quoted in the media as saying as much it pretty much moves it closer to gauranteed than assumption.



I don't disagree. And I'm fine with that.

I will say though, I believe there was once a BOT member that went to Dot with quotes about interest in the Big 12, that Barron squashed pretty quickly. And I believe that same guy was quoted here.

That said, I think/hope you're probably right. But like Dot's article says, it's time. Whether it was after last season or not, it is now.

If we finish this season with one or no losses and don't extend Jimbo's contract, what would your opinion be?


Fire everyone Lane Kiffen style

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 8:54 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by moz9:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:

Do whatever it takes now to make sure Fisher is here for a long long time. And yes this is all on Barron.


/





No it's not

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





Do we have a new President?? As far as I can see Barron has been calling all the shots with the football and conference issues. Can't see where that has changed. As President of the University it is all on him.


/
10/23 9:00 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by SavageSteve:




Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.




If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





I have to agree with Steve on this.


10/23 9:04 PM | IP: Logged
Vanole,
Here you go since you actually (I respect the fact you actually did read it) went through the trouble.

1-  UF doesn't have an IPF.  You are correct.  What about LSU, Bama, Auburn, Clemson, Ole Miss, Miss. St., Oregon, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio St, Missouri, Tennessee, Michigan, GaTech, Baylor, etc...  Do I need to list more?  And the top ten ranked teams Stanford and Texas Tech do not.  In the state of Florida, I believe we are the only one with one.  Better question, do MOST of the top programs have one?

2- Outside of 3 or 4 coaches, every coach that makes more than him has accomplished more.  This is laughable!  Here we go:  Bo Pelini at Nebraska, Bret Beliema at Arkansas, Mark Richt at Georgia, Lane Kiffen at USC, Butch Jones at Tennessee, Brady Hoke at Michigan, Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State, Gary Patterson at TCU, Steve Spurrier at USCjr (He did win at UF), Charlie Strong at Louisville, and Kirk Ferentz at Iowa.  Wrong again.................

3-I mention the fact about Jimbo's request for things (It was noted by others in this post that Jimbo may not be getting paid but gets what he wants facility wise) so that should be suffice for his length of contract and lower payment.  Not crazy, yep that was actually stated in these very threads and suggest you look at those comments.

4-I wonder how many times someone does sign an EXTENSION (not even a raise) and it works out?  Hmmmm........  That would be interesting to look at.

5-You asked if Jimbo was a top 3 coach last year.  Nope he wasn't, but was he the 17th?  Answer that one........

6-Whether you agree with the societal issue (I agree with you on this) or not it doesn't matter.  If the TOP programs do offer that, guess what FSU needs to do?

7-Yes his contract is guaranteed.  I was stating it would be cheaper to negotiate the extension last year (no raise but probably would have changed and your right) or negotiate NOW (while there is a chance we go undefeated or maybe he slips up and loses a game but the gamble is in FSU's best interest rather than the coach) versus waiting until the season is over and then you will be paying more if he goes undefeated rather than he could possibly.

8-Reference to Muschanp was simply to prove my point he hasn't won as much as Jimbo but yet he has a better contract.  Muschamp sucks, and I believe a blind mouse could see that.  BUT, he still has a better contract than Jimbo.

9-What job do you know of when you perform in the top 10% and don't get paid in the top 10% of that profession?

10-Lastly, we both agree on if we want a national power, you must pay a national power salary and contract length.
10/23 9:24 PM | IP: Logged
Jimbo is the man! Can't think of too many I would rather have. Get him paid. Dynasty is on the way!

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 9:33 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by Dot Com:
For those that disagree, I'm just giving my opinion that it's better to be safe than sorry in this situation.

Hopefully everything does work out in the off-season, Fisher and FSU work out a fair contract that locks him down for the long term and everybody is happy with the agreement. That would be great and hopefully that's the way it works out.

My life experience has taught me that things don't always go the way you hope or expect.  Hope for the best, but plan for the worst. We have no idea what jobs might open up in a couple months. Seems prudent to lock down Fisher now before it gets to that point.

But if you really think FSU is going to have another "NC State" situation this season then I guess you feel it's perfectly fine to roll the dice. Hopefully this column is being too paranoid and everything will be hunky dory with FSU and Fisher down the road.


This post was edited on 10/23 4:28 PM by Dot Com


You act as if this is FSUs decision to lock him up now.  With a crazy market opening up this year, do you think Sexton would allow him to sign anything before letting the market drive up his price? FSU couldn't do it now if they were dying too.
10/23 9:44 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Daddy-OO:



Originally posted by SavageSteve:




Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.




If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





I have to agree with Steve on this.



Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.


This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben

10/23 9:45 PM | IP: Logged
We better pay him now! Whatever it takes

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 9:51 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by Pben:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:






Originally posted by SavageSteve:







Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.






If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com






I have to agree with Steve on this.





Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.



This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben









Originally posted by Pben:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:






Originally posted by SavageSteve:







Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.






If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com






I have to agree with Steve on this.





Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.



This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben









Originally posted by Pben:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:






Originally posted by SavageSteve:







Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.






If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com






I have to agree with Steve on this.





Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.



This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben





Finished huh? I see where it did not take you long to run over to the other site with your spiel. Steve had you pegged pretty good.
10/23 10:16 PM | IP: Logged
Thanks Dot.

I agree with every word. There's always that small percentage that will disagree, but I promise you have the grasp of the fanbase, and not on a small percentage on Warchant.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 10:16 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by Dot Com:


Originally posted by SavageSteve:


Originally posted by vanole35:
Oh lord. Here we go again.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


I'm trying to figure out your angle here.  

What exactly are you opposed to about paying the man?  

When I first wrote about this nearly a year ago a couple people dug in an refused to accept the fact that 5-year deals are SOP for major college coaches these days. They were steadfast against granting Fisher a 1-year extension even though he didn't even ask for a raise. Never really got the argument then and it makes even less sense now.

If you want FSU to be a major player on the big stage you have to pay the entrance fee to get in. Some think the price of admission is too high, and that's fine, but then you should accept that FSU won't be a power for long because major college football is about big money these days.

Pretty basic and most rational people should understand this. If you don't mind 7-6 find a coach and pay him 1.2 million and pay assistants 150k that simple. Just don't go hysterical with every loss. Not very complicated. UM paid Shannon i think 1.8 or 2 mill and they got what they paid for.
10/23 10:18 PM | IP: Logged
It's simple business risk mitigation

What do you lose by extending him? Nothing.

What do you risk by not doing?

That's the question to ask yourself.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 10:18 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by emeraldnole:
Thanks Dot.

I agree with every word. There's always that small percentage that will disagree, but I promise you have the grasp of the fanbase, and not on a small percentage on Warchant.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





Want to thank you too Dot. Good to see you keeping this on folks mind. This is an important issue. Most of us understand that.


/
10/23 10:49 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Pben:

Originally posted by Daddy-OO:



Originally posted by SavageSteve:




Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.




If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





I have to agree with Steve on this.



Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.


This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben




Mack Brown got a ton of money spent at UNC and huge facility upgrades. They bent over backwards for him and they built a top 10 program together. You either don't know the history there or don't care to be bothered with the truth when it gets in the way, as usual. And anyways, how in the world do you use a guy that left for more money as an example to show that coaches don't leave for more money?

Jimbo turned down the head coaching job at WVU for a BETTER job. No one ever said this doesn't happen. Logic is really not that hard.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 10:51 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by emeraldnole:
Thanks Dot.

I agree with every word. There's always that small percentage that will disagree, but I promise you have the grasp of the fanbase, and not on a small percentage on Warchant.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


Thanks, appreciate it.

I agree that a majority of the FSU fans, alumni and boosters would prefer to lock Fisher down to a longer term contract, and the sooner the better. Why not, he has proved his worth and FSU should do what it can keep him. There is a vocal minority that has dug in on this issue and that's fine. Debate can be fun.

Contrary to what a couple people in the minority continue to spout, I'm not out to get Barron. In fact, from what I can see he made an excellent hire in Stan Wilcox. I just hope he delegates the major decisions involving FSU athletics to the person that was hired to run the department. 

I'm always going to give my opinion as I see it and some will always disagree. That will never change and it wouldn't be as fun if everybody agreed. 

 
10/23 10:55 PM | IP: Logged
It's quite simple actually. Let's say you went to buy a belt.  You go into the store and look at the belts and pick one out.  Hopefully it's not a braided belt.  You take it out and wear it around, showing it off, clipping your blackberry to it, and you even manage to improve the apparent condition of the belt.  You are really happy with the belt, and you high five all of your friends and colleagues while wearing it.  

But then someone you don't really talk to much sees you at lunch wearing the belt and says "hey man--you need a longer belt!  That belt too short!  And you need a much nicer belt!!  Why isn't the boss giving you a longer and nicer belt?  He must not be a good boss, or he just doesn't like you.  Aren't you mad as hell?  You need a new belt!!!!"

You would say, "Hey man, thanks for your concern, but I have to get back to work. I have a lot going on this week, and next week.  I have an annual review set up with my boss and I'll be sure to let him know that I really would like a longer and nicer belt."  
10/23 11:12 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Dot Com:


Originally posted by emeraldnole:
Thanks Dot.

I agree with every word. There's always that small percentage that will disagree, but I promise you have the grasp of the fanbase, and not on a small percentage on Warchant.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


Thanks, appreciate it.

I agree that a majority of the FSU fans, alumni and boosters would prefer to lock Fisher down to a longer term contract, and the sooner the better. Why not, he has proved his worth and FSU should do what it can keep him. There is a vocal minority that has dug in on this issue and that's fine. Debate can be fun.

Contrary to what a couple people in the minority continue to spout, I'm not out to get Barron. In fact, from what I can see he made an excellent hire in Stan Wilcox. I just hope he delegates the major decisions involving FSU athletics to the person that was hired to run the department. 

I'm always going to give my opinion as I see it and some will always disagree. That will never change and it wouldn't be as fun if everybody agreed. 

 


What is your opinion on it? The article seems to say that FSU isn't doing anything about it and needs to, but then you quote two BOT members who say they have talked about it, will continue to, and don't see how we won't get exactly that done.

Do we know that Barron hasn't had recent talks with Sexton about it?

I think you would find about 1% on this board or even in this thread who don't think he deserves an increase and extension. I don't think it matters at all if it happens now or in 6 weeks though.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/23 11:19 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by vanole35:

Originally posted by Dot Com:


Originally posted by emeraldnole:
Thanks Dot.

I agree with every word. There's always that small percentage that will disagree, but I promise you have the grasp of the fanbase, and not on a small percentage on Warchant.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


Thanks, appreciate it.

I agree that a majority of the FSU fans, alumni and boosters would prefer to lock Fisher down to a longer term contract, and the sooner the better. Why not, he has proved his worth and FSU should do what it can keep him. There is a vocal minority that has dug in on this issue and that's fine. Debate can be fun.

Contrary to what a couple people in the minority continue to spout, I'm not out to get Barron. In fact, from what I can see he made an excellent hire in Stan Wilcox. I just hope he delegates the major decisions involving FSU athletics to the person that was hired to run the department. 

I'm always going to give my opinion as I see it and some will always disagree. That will never change and it wouldn't be as fun if everybody agreed. 

 


What is your opinion on it? The article seems to say that FSU isn't doing anything about it and needs to, but then you quote two BOT members who say they have talked about it, will continue to, and don't see how we won't get exactly that done.

Do we know that Barron hasn't had recent talks with Sexton about it?

I think you would find about 1% on this board or even in this thread who don't think he deserves an increase and extension. I don't think it matters at all if it happens now or in 6 weeks though.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


FSU has NOT done anything about it, if they had Jimbo would have a 5 year deal. Why would you give a coach a 5 year deal to begin with, and then not keep that same agreement every year if you thought he was the man to lead your team. And the fact he had to ask for it and not get it is down right embarrassing. 

And I think what a lot of us as fans and boosters would love to see is a statement. Much like the statements Jimbo Fisher has made at this school since he took over a horrible team. He's dropped a few that he should'nt had, so did Bobby, so has every coach in the game. I think a lot of us that have always believed in Fisher want an unprecedented move to further show Jimbo we believe in him and want him here for a long time. Extending his contract and giving him a raise mid season would be a major unprecedented move by the Admin and if they are smart, they will do it.

You say you don't understand why it should be done in the middle of the season. Well there's your answer. 
10/23 11:46 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by Pben:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:






Originally posted by SavageSteve:







Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.






If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com






I have to agree with Steve on this.





Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.



This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben




Good examples all.  WC seems to be on the wrong side of many big issues.  Join Big 12, the USF game contract, now this.  Yeah let's have our football coach worry about contract negotiations in the middle of the biggest season of his career.  Thank God the majority opinion on here is usually not followed in these matters.

What DOT said about Coach Fisher and what he has done for the program is certainly true.  He also quotes BOT members who say he will be taken care of.  When the time is right Jimbo will be taken care of.  But this kind of panicky, "do it now or we are doomed" thinking just falls in line with some of the other bad ideas that have been espoused.

I don't think anybody here wants to begrudge Jimbo more money it is the timing of this article and the way it demands something be done now.

This post was edited on 10/24 12:28 AM by fsujd

10/24 12:14 AM | IP: Logged

4.0 thru 2020....its that simple

You want a winner?  Then invest in the best.
10/24 1:48 AM | IP: Logged
Pay him and the assistant coaches... The coaching staff we have now is working well and I just hope we can hang on to them for a while.
10/24 2:20 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Daddy-OO:



Originally posted by Pben:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:






Originally posted by SavageSteve:







Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.






If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com






I have to agree with Steve on this.





Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.



This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben









Originally posted by Pben:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:






Originally posted by SavageSteve:







Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.






If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com






I have to agree with Steve on this.





Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.



This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben









Originally posted by Pben:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:






Originally posted by SavageSteve:







Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.






If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com






I have to agree with Steve on this.





Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.



This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben





Finished huh? I see where it did not take you long to run over to the other site with your spiel. Steve had you pegged pretty good.

I notice you stayed out of it, since you would of been the 1%.

Now I am done...have a nice football season.
10/24 6:30 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by fsujd:



Originally posted by Pben:




Originally posted by Daddy-OO:






Originally posted by SavageSteve:







Originally posted by Democratic Nole:
Pben is owning this thread like FSU owned Clemson on Saturday.






If spouting BS is your thing....I guess.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com






I have to agree with Steve on this.





Ok if you enjoy being clueless as well, keep shilling for DoT Steve, maybe you'll get a free subscription out of it.

As for people not leaving for more money if they get proper support from the current job:

Mack Brown on record had UNC made a strong commitment to football, he would of stayed.

Jimbo turned down the HC JOB at WVU to stay at FSU

Jurich the AD from Lousiville just turned down Texas to stay there.... but wait Texas has tons of money they are just throwing around...right?

That is just examples related to this topic.

I am finished with this nonsense, this is about as spot on, as FSU to the B12 is imminent.



This post was edited on 10/23 9:53 PM by Pben




Good examples all.  WC seems to be on the wrong side of many big issues.  Join Big 12, the USF game contract, now this.  Yeah let's have our football coach worry about contract negotiations in the middle of the biggest season of his career.  Thank God the majority opinion on here is usually not followed in these matters.

What DOT said about Coach Fisher and what he has done for the program is certainly true.  He also quotes BOT members who say he will be taken care of.  When the time is right Jimbo will be taken care of.  But this kind of panicky, "do it now or we are doomed" thinking just falls in line with some of the other bad ideas that have been espoused.

I don't think anybody here wants to begrudge Jimbo more money it is the timing of this article and the way it demands something be done now.

This post was edited on 10/24 12:28 AM by fsujd




Lol.

Those are terrible examples to support an even more laughable premise.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/24 6:33 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by fsujd:

I don't think anybody here wants to begrudge Jimbo more money it is the timing of this article and the way it demands something be done now.


I agree jd.  I want Jimbo to get both an extension and a raise.  My only issue with this piece is - why are we talking about this in October?  This is the best run our team has had since the early 2000s and we're worried about someone poaching our head coach?  It's not going to happen.  Jimbo has the best player in college football right now.  He's not going anywhere.  At season's end he will get a nice raise and an extension I'm sure, and if he does not then and only then should we be worried about him being taken from us. 
10/24 7:27 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by CobraEatr:



Originally posted by fsujd:

I don't think anybody here wants to begrudge Jimbo more money it is the timing of this article and the way it demands something be done now.


I agree jd.  I want Jimbo to get both an extension and a raise.  My only issue with this piece is - why are we talking about this in October?  This is the best run our team has had since the early 2000s and we're worried about someone poaching our head coach?  It's not going to happen.  Jimbo has the best player in college football right now.  He's not going anywhere.  At season's end he will get a nice raise and an extension I'm sure, and if he does not then and only then should we be worried about him being taken from us. 
First, if no one wants to begrudge Jimbo an extension and raise, then why are so many agreeing with Pben's crusade to paint Fisher as greedy by listing, erroneously, his previous "raises"?  If we think he deserves a raise at the end of the season, why the need to post a laundry list to make the guy look bad?  

Second, you can say "Jimbo isn't going anywhere" but that doesn't make it so.  Jimbo has one of the best jobs in America.  But Jimbo, like Barron also has an ego.  He wanted an extension last year and didn't get one.  We don't know how much or how little damage that did to his relationship with the powers that be.  But if it was significant, then he could be a lot more open to other jobs.  When TK was here, love him or hate him, it was pretty obvious that he believed in Jimbo and supported him.  Barron gets here and the first thing he does is deny him a one year extension, for the same salary.  And an extension that was, whether you agree with it or not, was indeed in line with industry standard.  As for Jimbo, I don't think it's an issue he needs to "worry" about, but something that the people who's JOBS it is to worry about it could possibly be working in that direction.  

I think all anyone is saying is that FSU doesn't need to be dragging it's feet on this.  And Barron's actions in regards to Jimbo so far haven't shown us that he's in a big hurry to take care of Jimbo.  And the statement from the AD didn't seem to indicate that he was either.  Doesn't mean they aren't, it just means we haven't seen it.  And people are a little concerned.


10/24 7:43 AM | IP: Logged
I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea of giving Jimbo more money when it is warranted, but calling for it the way Dot did in his column isn't well reasoned, it's purely reactionary, which is why the column is absurd on its face.

We just throttled the #3 team in the country on the road for Jimbo's biggest win of his career, and what does the publisher of this site take away from that? "GIVE HIM A RAISE NOW OMG SOMEONE IS GOING TO STEAL HIM!!!" You've got to be kidding me. How is this any different from fans screaming "FIRE COACH HAM!" every time the basketball team loses a game? It's not. It's an overreaction based on one game.

Not only that, it's written as if Barron is asleep at the wheel on this issue. "As of this week there were no plans to give fisher a raise." Wait, you mean the first order of business for the president and BOT when they got back from Clemson (the event that spurred this column) wasn't immediately offering Jimbo more money? Yesterday was Wednesday for gosh sakes. The president and BOT got back to Tallahassee on Sunday with the team. When did you get your quotes, DOT? Was it after the game on Saturday, like Ira did for one of his columns in the Democrat?

You act like this is some imminent issue that must be resolved soon or Jimbo is going to be on a jet to Austin. You even wrote "Even with time running short..." - Time is running short for what?

Let's say FSU extends Jimbo's contract to 2018 and gives him a $3.5 million salary. What, are teams looking for a coach no longer going to be interested? We won't be in a bidding war?

This is his 4th year as a head coach. He's gotten a raise/extension after every season except 1. He's gotten the $15 million IPF that he wanted, and countless other upgrades (see Pben's post on the first page). He's gotten everything he's wanted except a measly 1 year extension after last season, and because of that he's not "locked down"?

I don't think anyone is against giving Jimbo a raise when it's warranted. But calling for it the way Dot did in his column is just reactionary fan stuff.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

10/24 8:12 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Learned Hand:
I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea of giving Jimbo more money when it is warranted, but calling for it the way Dot did in his column isn't well reasoned, it's purely reactionary, which is why the column is absurd on its face.

We just throttled the #3 team in the country on the road for Jimbo's biggest win of his career, and what does the publisher of this site take away from that? "GIVE HIM A RAISE NOW OMG SOMEONE IS GOING TO STEAL HIM!!!" You've got to be kidding me. How is this any different from fans screaming "FIRE COACH HAM!" every time the basketball team loses a game? It's not. It's an overreaction based on one game.

Not only that, it's written as if Barron is asleep at the wheel on this issue. "As of this week there were no plans to give fisher a raise." Wait, you mean the first order of business for the president and BOT when they got back from Clemson (the event that spurred this column) wasn't immediately offering Jimbo more money? Yesterday was Wednesday for gosh sakes. The president and BOT got back to Tallahassee on Sunday with the team. When did you get your quotes, DOT? Was it after the game on Saturday, like Ira did for one of his columns in the Democrat?

You act like this is some imminent issue that must be resolved soon or Jimbo is going to be on a jet to Austin. You even wrote "Even with time running short..." - Time is running short for what?

Let's say FSU extends Jimbo's contract to 2018 and gives him a $3.5 million salary. What, are teams looking for a coach no longer going to be interested? We won't be in a bidding war?

This is his 4th year as a head coach. He's gotten a raise/extension after every season except 1. He's gotten the $15 million IPF that he wanted, and countless other upgrades (see Pben's post on the first page). He's gotten everything he's wanted except a measly 1 year extension after last season, and because of that he's not "locked down"?

I don't think anyone is against giving Jimbo a raise when it's warranted. But calling for it the way Dot did in his column is just reactionary fan stuff.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


Have to play to your audience....

By the way if I am JF's agent, any extension and raise is not getting the time of day till after the season, so its all a moot point anyway...but hey don't let that stop you all from bashing....I am actually enjoying it, with a nice fresh cup of Dunkin Donuts Dark Roast coffee.
10/24 8:30 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by Learned Hand:
I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea of giving Jimbo more money when it is warranted, but calling for it the way Dot did in his column isn't well reasoned, it's purely reactionary, which is why the column is absurd on its face.

We just throttled the #3 team in the country on the road for Jimbo's biggest win of his career, and what does the publisher of this site take away from that? "GIVE HIM A RAISE NOW OMG SOMEONE IS GOING TO STEAL HIM!!!" You've got to be kidding me. How is this any different from fans screaming "FIRE COACH HAM!" every time the basketball team loses a game? It's not. It's an overreaction based on one game.

Not only that, it's written as if Barron is asleep at the wheel on this issue. "As of this week there were no plans to give fisher a raise." Wait, you mean the first order of business for the president and BOT when they got back from Clemson (the event that spurred this column) wasn't immediately offering Jimbo more money? Yesterday was Wednesday for gosh sakes. The president and BOT got back to Tallahassee on Sunday with the team. When did you get your quotes, DOT? Was it after the game on Saturday, like Ira did for one of his columns in the Democrat?

You act like this is some imminent issue that must be resolved soon or Jimbo is going to be on a jet to Austin. You even wrote "Even with time running short..." - Time is running short for what?

Let's say FSU extends Jimbo's contract to 2018 and gives him a $3.5 million salary. What, are teams looking for a coach no longer going to be interested? We won't be in a bidding war?

This is his 4th year as a head coach. He's gotten a raise/extension after every season except 1. He's gotten the $15 million IPF that he wanted, and countless other upgrades (see Pben's post on the first page). He's gotten everything he's wanted except a measly 1 year extension after last season, and because of that he's not "locked down"?

I don't think anyone is against giving Jimbo a raise when it's warranted. But calling for it the way Dot did in his column is just reactionary fan stuff.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


Came here to retort some of the nonsense in this thread, but you've already done an excellent job of it. Thank you, Learned Hand.

10/24 8:45 AM | IP: Logged
Look there's a chemistry within this team that this program hasn't seen in the last 13 years, maybe more, I don't know I'm not an insider. But I do know that everyone on this board has bitched about coaches, coaching, play calling, player performance, recruiting, etc. etc. etc. Alabama this, Coach Saban that. How do other teams do what they do? blah blah blah. Looks like they pay up. This team is in contention for a national championship, and if the administration is willing to play chicken with that, then they aren't serious about this football program. Not only does Jimbo need an extension or raise or whatever, so does the entire staff. Great day! Jameis said, "I love that man you just interviewed right there" on national TV. Do ya think that might help recruiting? The rest of the country seems to think so and so does sports radio. Try finding a channel that doesn't mention FSU in the first 3 minutes of listening. The timing is good for Jimbo and all the staff to ask for compensation, and they all deserve recoginition for their efforts, so, get over it. If the administration can negitiate from the perspective of what have you done for me lately, then Jimbo can answer with I just beat No. 3 Clemson in their house 51-7(14), bitch. At the very least a conditional good faith promise is in order, and if they win by hanging 60-0 on NC State, Miami and UF, or something to that effect, then you've got to pull the trigger. I can't believe the second this team is considered back, the "big businessmen" want to screw around with it. I'm not saying FSU has to compete with Texas, Notre Dame or Alabama on salary, but they can't sit on their hands either. Plenty of successful people negotiate compensation multiple times during successful years, just ask Wall Street managers. Just sayin.
10/24 8:47 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by Learned Hand:
I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea of giving Jimbo more money when it is warranted, but calling for it the way Dot did in his column isn't well reasoned, it's purely reactionary, which is why the column is absurd on its face.

We just throttled the #3 team in the country on the road for Jimbo's biggest win of his career, and what does the publisher of this site take away from that? "GIVE HIM A RAISE NOW OMG SOMEONE IS GOING TO STEAL HIM!!!" You've got to be kidding me. How is this any different from fans screaming "FIRE COACH HAM!" every time the basketball team loses a game? It's not. It's an overreaction based on one game.

Not only that, it's written as if Barron is asleep at the wheel on this issue. "As of this week there were no plans to give fisher a raise." Wait, you mean the first order of business for the president and BOT when they got back from Clemson (the event that spurred this column) wasn't immediately offering Jimbo more money? Yesterday was Wednesday for gosh sakes. The president and BOT got back to Tallahassee on Sunday with the team. When did you get your quotes, DOT? Was it after the game on Saturday, like Ira did for one of his columns in the Democrat?

You act like this is some imminent issue that must be resolved soon or Jimbo is going to be on a jet to Austin. You even wrote "Even with time running short..." - Time is running short for what?

Let's say FSU extends Jimbo's contract to 2018 and gives him a $3.5 million salary. What, are teams looking for a coach no longer going to be interested? We won't be in a bidding war?

This is his 4th year as a head coach. He's gotten a raise/extension after every season except 1. He's gotten the $15 million IPF that he wanted, and countless other upgrades (see Pben's post on the first page). He's gotten everything he's wanted except a measly 1 year extension after last season, and because of that he's not "locked down"?

I don't think anyone is against giving Jimbo a raise when it's warranted. But calling for it the way Dot did in his column is just reactionary fan stuff.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


I would argue that it's different in a couple of ways.  Number one, Ham had quite a long history of success.  Sometimes we were right in the middle of those successful seasons when people would flip out.  So "firing" him after one game was silly. Jimbo ALSO is building a history of success.  He's been on a pretty steady upward trend since he got here.  It's not as if he's been winning 7 and 8 games, then suddenly is red hot.  This season so far has simply shown yet another step forward.  And Saturday Night answered one of the few questions left about Jimbo.  It's his resume, coupled with this season that has people appreciating him. Not just one win. Also, whether it's warranted or not, the coaching industry IS reactionary.  Andy Enfield is now the head basketball coach at USC.  Because of about 2 or 3 wins.  In one season.  That wasn't even that great of a season, until the Tourneys.  Plenty of schools have taken a flier on the hot and shiny new thing.  Jimbo is hot, and he ALREADY had interest from other good jobs while we were still sitting around unsure of whether we wanted to extend his contract.  Now it stands to reason that he'll have considerably more.  So if Dot's article is reactionary, so is the market.

If FSU extends Jimbo's contract, it won't keep schools from looking at him.  But it would narrow the list.  Not every school can afford to blow FSU out of the water with a coach's salary.  But a lot of them can pick low hanging fruit if a coach feels underappreciated. Also, I've said that if someone like Texas comes calling and throws a ridiculous sum of money at him, there isn't much we can do to match it financially.  But what we CAN do is show Jimbo that we appreciate him and are willing to pay him what he deserves and what we can afford.  To this point, we haven't done that.   Jimbo has a great job.  And there aren't many he'd be tempted to leave for.  Unless we piss him off. 

And please stop citing Pben's nonsense.  You hurt your argument.  He actually has the fact that we gave Jimbo a "raise" when he went from being OC to head coach on the list.  Yeah.  We really bent over backwards there by not paying the head coach at FSU the same 500 grand he was making as OC.  On top of that, Jimbo's first head coaching salary was pretty low in comparison.  He got his first raise as head coach here because he was making about a  MILLION less than Muschamp before Will had coached a game, and Jimbo had won 10 games in his first year.  With a team that barely made a bowl game the previous year.  And those raises came from the previous administration.  The IPF was being planned before Barron got here.  Have we really seen all this support since Barron arrived?  Or did he just tell Jimbo no on the extension?


10/24 8:48 AM | IP: Logged
nm

This post was edited on 10/24 8:55 AM by SavageSteve

10/24 8:49 AM | IP: Logged

He needs to get paid but the timing of this article is supect. I mean it is just one big win - why not wait til the end of the season.

It seems like a knee jerk reaction.

10/24 9:03 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by The WarNole:
Jimbo has literally brought us from obscurity back to prominence, where we should be. Pay the man and lock him down. He deserves all the money we can realistically afford to give him.



You jest! From obscurity? This program hasn't been obscure since 1979!. But, I do not want to see us get too chintzy. That can erode loyalty. I want Jimbo to feel like that he is proud to be a Seminole and feels we are proud for him to be a Seminole! I felt like we should have offered an extension, last year. If we posture as "guarding the bank", he may decide the "grass is greener", etc. Granted, these things are delicate, so care must be given to having the right attitude! I ask myself the question, how much is it worth to have Jimbo coaching and recruiting for FSU. Is our Coach really that far down from the top of the coaching ranks? I bet there are several that would "Pony-up" right now, if they had the opportunity. Point is; don't wait until you are behind to try and negotiate!
10/24 9:32 AM | IP: Logged


can someone answer these questions?
1- What role does the University play in this million dollar salary discussion? I thought the university is only allowed to pay a certain amount for the position of head football coach and we, the boosters, have to come up with the rest.
2- Why is the DOT trying to stir the pot at this stage of the season? Let the fans enjoy the season and the success of the players without the BS. The rewards, for Jimbo and Sexton, will follow.

10/24 9:57 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by SavageSteve:




Originally posted by fsujd:

Good examples all.  WC seems to be on the wrong side of many big issues.  Join Big 12, the USF game contract, now this.  Yeah let's have our football coach worry about contract negotiations in the middle of the biggest season of his career.  Thank God the majority opinion on here is usually not followed in these matters.

What DOT said about Coach Fisher and what he has done for the program is certainly true.  He also quotes BOT members who say he will be taken care of.  When the time is right Jimbo will be taken care of.  But this kind of panicky, "do it now or we are doomed" thinking just falls in line with some of the other bad ideas that have been espoused.

I don't think anybody here wants to begrudge Jimbo more money it is the timing of this article and the way it demands something be done now.

This post was edited on 10/24 12:28 AM by fsujd





Lol.

Those are terrible examples to support an even more laughable premise.


Posted from wireless.rivals.com




Please explain (a) why you're LOLing (b) why these examples (facts) are so terrible and (c) what premise you are referring to that is so laughable. 


10/24 10:04 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by SavageSteve:


Originally posted by Learned Hand:
I don't think anyone disagrees with the idea of giving Jimbo more money when it is warranted, but calling for it the way Dot did in his column isn't well reasoned, it's purely reactionary, which is why the column is absurd on its face.

We just throttled the #3 team in the country on the road for Jimbo's biggest win of his career, and what does the publisher of this site take away from that? "GIVE HIM A RAISE NOW OMG SOMEONE IS GOING TO STEAL HIM!!!" You've got to be kidding me. How is this any different from fans screaming "FIRE COACH HAM!" every time the basketball team loses a game? It's not. It's an overreaction based on one game.

Not only that, it's written as if Barron is asleep at the wheel on this issue. "As of this week there were no plans to give fisher a raise." Wait, you mean the first order of business for the president and BOT when they got back from Clemson (the event that spurred this column) wasn't immediately offering Jimbo more money? Yesterday was Wednesday for gosh sakes. The president and BOT got back to Tallahassee on Sunday with the team. When did you get your quotes, DOT? Was it after the game on Saturday, like Ira did for one of his columns in the Democrat?

You act like this is some imminent issue that must be resolved soon or Jimbo is going to be on a jet to Austin. You even wrote "Even with time running short..." - Time is running short for what?

Let's say FSU extends Jimbo's contract to 2018 and gives him a $3.5 million salary. What, are teams looking for a coach no longer going to be interested? We won't be in a bidding war?

This is his 4th year as a head coach. He's gotten a raise/extension after every season except 1. He's gotten the $15 million IPF that he wanted, and countless other upgrades (see Pben's post on the first page). He's gotten everything he's wanted except a measly 1 year extension after last season, and because of that he's not "locked down"?

I don't think anyone is against giving Jimbo a raise when it's warranted. But calling for it the way Dot did in his column is just reactionary fan stuff.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


I would argue that it's different in a couple of ways.  Number one, Ham had quite a long history of success.  Sometimes we were right in the middle of those successful seasons when people would flip out.  So "firing" him after one game was silly. Jimbo ALSO is building a history of success.  He's been on a pretty steady upward trend since he got here.  It's not as if he's been winning 7 and 8 games, then suddenly is red hot.  This season so far has simply shown yet another step forward.  And Saturday Night answered one of the few questions left about Jimbo.  It's his resume, coupled with this season that has people appreciating him. Not just one win. Also, whether it's warranted or not, the coaching industry IS reactionary.  Andy Enfield is now the head basketball coach at USC.  Because of about 2 or 3 wins.  In one season.  That wasn't even that great of a season, until the Tourneys.  Plenty of schools have taken a flier on the hot and shiny new thing.  Jimbo is hot, and he ALREADY had interest from other good jobs while we were still sitting around unsure of whether we wanted to extend his contract.  Now it stands to reason that he'll have considerably more.  So if Dot's article is reactionary, so is the market.

If FSU extends Jimbo's contract, it won't keep schools from looking at him.  But it would narrow the list.  Not every school can afford to blow FSU out of the water with a coach's salary.  But a lot of them can pick low hanging fruit if a coach feels underappreciated. Also, I've said that if someone like Texas comes calling and throws a ridiculous sum of money at him, there isn't much we can do to match it financially.  But what we CAN do is show Jimbo that we appreciate him and are willing to pay him what he deserves and what we can afford.  To this point, we haven't done that.   Jimbo has a great job.  And there aren't many he'd be tempted to leave for.  Unless we piss him off. 

And please stop citing Pben's nonsense.  You hurt your argument.  He actually has the fact that we gave Jimbo a "raise" when he went from being OC to head coach on the list.  Yeah.  We really bent over backwards there by not paying the head coach at FSU the same 500 grand he was making as OC.  On top of that, Jimbo's first head coaching salary was pretty low in comparison.  He got his first raise as head coach here because he was making about a  MILLION less than Muschamp before Will had coached a game, and Jimbo had won 10 games in his first year.  With a team that barely made a bowl game the previous year.  And those raises came from the previous administration.  The IPF was being planned before Barron got here.  Have we really seen all this support since Barron arrived?  Or did he just tell Jimbo no on the extension?



This is practical and factual. That first year though Jimbo was willing to take a lower salary to ensure he got the level of assistants he wanted. 

The simple fact that Jimbo won an ACCG and a BCS bowl game should had at least gotten him a contract extension no???? Especially since he had to ASK for it no???? That's embarrassing to me as a fan. This is not the "unprecedented" move I would like to see FSU make towards Jimbo. I don't doubt he won't get the extension or raise, but timing on this in today's world IS crucial.  

I don't see DOT's article as some kind of "knee jerk" reaction. If that were true, like Steve stated, coaches would never ever be hired or fired mid season. Now, 20 years ago, yes, just go ask sputtering Lou Holtz this, that's the mentality I feel like some of you have towards this, I'm not so sure you get the whole college thing these days. There's tons upon tons of cash in the game since ESPN became the 
behemoth it is now. Being able to offer huge contracts for all of their tv rights makes it possible for schools to play on an uneven playing ground. College football is supposed to be like Nascar in that everyone should be playing with a fairly similar hand, some have always had a little more than others, but a lot of them were pretty close before those massive TV contracts came along. Schools used to get most of it's money from ticket sales and boosters, now, it's all about TV money and anytime you bring TV into the equation it starts another world, a new philosophy and it changes the rules. 

In the old days schools didn't have the leverage they do now, also, coaching philosophy has changed, these guys have adapted with the times, so a move like this worries me and a lot of people and it should, because it's a fear that our University is taking a step backwards when it should trying to be ahead of the game. Stan Wilcox was brought in here to be the Young Gun, the guy that gets things done, and who knows how to create a really great PR campaign. Well, so far I'm not impressed, because no better PR than extending a coach midseason. Then based on what Fisher does this season we can talk about getting him to $3.5 - $3.75 mil. If he does what he's looking like he's going to do that's where he should be, it's what we can afford, and if big money schools came strutting in most likely they wouldn't offer much more than that. I think that's the figure that locks him down for a while. He knows that would be a far as we could for right now and he would appreciate it. But by letting this thing go like this, and not reacting and giving him at least another year on that contract immediately is a significant step backwards for the Admin no matter how you slice it. In the times we are in you can't be messing around with these sort of things. 

Let me ask one final question. Are you as a fan base ok with 9-3 seasons? 8-4? No, you expect nothing less than 1 loss. If it goes over that this fan base is in full meltdown. The point I'm trying to make here is that if this school demands wins and NC's, you have to be willing to "Pony Up". This falls on the big money boosters. Some can only give the minimum, and if it's all you got it's all you got. But there are some that can make this possible, and they will when we are threatened, but will it be too late? Yes. I'm sure a lot of these big money guys would have no issues with coming together and securing Fisher right now. It's not them that's holding this up, it's the Admin, so I can see where DOT and others pointing them out is appropriate. 

Phew, ok, I'm done on this matter. I've been debating with people since Saturday night on this and I'm tired of it. Here's hoping someone reads Dot's article that matters, and get's in touch with the "powers at be". Again Dot, thanks for the article, really nailed it, you've been talking about this since right after last year's bowl game I believe,  and this was perfect timing. 
10/24 10:10 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by noles3612:
Vanole,
Here you go since you actually (I respect the fact you actually did read it) went through the trouble.It's all conversation to me.  It's much better conversation when people take the time to address what was actually said.  I respect your difference of opinion as well.

1-  UF doesn't have an IPF.  You are correct.  What about LSU, Bama, Auburn, Clemson, Ole Miss, Miss. St., Oregon, USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio St, Missouri, Tennessee, Michigan, GaTech, Baylor, etc...  Do I need to list more?  And the top ten ranked teams Stanford and Texas Tech do not.  In the state of Florida, I believe we are the only one with one.  Better question, do MOST of the top programs have one?Yes, a lot of programs have one now.  Not a lot have one of the caliber we do, and the cost is the cost.  We are not a school dripping with money that throw it at things like this.  We didn't start playing football until much later, and lag in years of booster contributions.  

2- Outside of 3 or 4 coaches, every coach that makes more than him has accomplished more.  This is laughable!  Here we go:  Bo Pelini at Nebraska, Bret Beliema at Arkansas, Mark Richt at Georgia, Lane Kiffen at USC, Butch Jones at Tennessee, Brady Hoke at Michigan, Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State, Gary Patterson at TCU, Steve Spurrier at USCjr (He did win at UF), Charlie Strong at Louisville, and Kirk Ferentz at Iowa.  Wrong again.................I'll give you that it was more than I stated.  I glanced at it and should have looked at it more.  Spurrier has a National title though, and Richt has proven over time he can put good teams out there.  

3-I mention the fact about Jimbo's request for things (It was noted by others in this post that Jimbo may not be getting paid but gets what he wants facility wise) so that should be suffice for his length of contract and lower payment.  Not crazy, yep that was actually stated in these very threads and suggest you look at those comments.But Jimbo is getting paid.  He's getting paid $2.8M.  

4-I wonder how many times someone does sign an EXTENSION (not even a raise) and it works out?  Hmmmm........  That would be interesting to look at.Again, I was not against giving him an extension last year.  I am against giving it to him based on other schools handing out terrible contracts.  Tennessee is so far in the hole coaching salary wise because of exactly this.  We can't afford to do that.  Auburn fans were undoubtedly clamoring to extend and raise Chizick.  

5-You asked if Jimbo was a top 3 coach last year.  Nope he wasn't, but was he the 17th?  Answer that one........I'd say that's pretty accurate.  I could certainly project him being better than that, but i'm not sure one ACC title and three years of coaching history automatically puts you there.  

6-Whether you agree with the societal issue (I agree with you on this) or not it doesn't matter.  If the TOP programs do offer that, guess what FSU needs to do?It needs to make its own decisions based on how it feels and I pray it never starts making decisions just because other top programs are doing it.  

7-Yes his contract is guaranteed.  I was stating it would be cheaper to negotiate the extension last year (no raise but probably would have changed and your right) or negotiate NOW (while there is a chance we go undefeated or maybe he slips up and loses a game but the gamble is in FSU's best interest rather than the coach) versus waiting until the season is over and then you will be paying more if he goes undefeated rather than he could possibly.That's the thing though.  It's not cheaper to do it last year.  We would be in the same exact spot we are in this year whether we gave him an extension or not.  

8-Reference to Muschanp was simply to prove my point he hasn't won as much as Jimbo but yet he has a better contract.  Muschamp sucks, and I believe a blind mouse could see that.  BUT, he still has a better contract than Jimbo. Again, I hope this school never start signing contracts for multi-millions based on the terrible decisions of other schools.

9-What job do you know of when you perform in the top 10% and don't get paid in the top 10% of that profession? A whole bunch of them, especially if it's the first time you've done it and still have things to prove.  I didn't believe it for a second, but the truth is that we lost a couple games we definitely shouldn't have lost last year and for people to question it was not unrealistic.

10-Lastly, we both agree on if we want a national power, you must pay a national power salary and contract length. And he's going to get that from us.  
10/24 10:51 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by emeraldnole:

FSU has NOT done anything about it, if they had Jimbo would have a 5 year deal.
Is the only thing you can do about it having a signed deal?  

Why would you give a coach a 5 year deal to begin with, and then not keep that same agreement every year if you thought he was the man to lead your team.
That's just terrible business, that's why.  It pre-supposes that things will always work out how you think they will and puts real dollars at risk.  

And the fact he had to ask for it and not get it is down right embarrassing. 
So having to ask for a raise or an extension is embarrassing?  That's absurd.

And I think what a lot of us as fans and boosters would love to see is a statement. Much like the statements Jimbo Fisher has made at this school since he took over a horrible team. He's dropped a few that he should'nt had, so did Bobby, so has every coach in the game. I think a lot of us that have always believed in Fisher (I'm firmly in this category) want an unprecedented move to further show Jimbo we believe in him and want him here for a long time. Extending his contract and giving him a raise mid season would be a major unprecedented move by the Admin and if they are smart, they will do it.
Does Fisher want to work on his extension or a new contract right now?  Is his agent doing that now? 

You say you don't understand why it should be done in the middle of the season. Well there's your answer. 

10/24 10:59 AM | IP: Logged
If one follows Jimbo's PCs and hears what he has to say about certain things, I'm sure all of this is "clutter" for him right now.

All will be taken care of at the end of the season, meanwhile, I'm sure he is more concerned with his team and his upcoming games.
10/24 11:08 AM | IP: Logged
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