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Originally posted by Bad Nole:


Originally posted by ChopHouse:

I wonder what would happen if Dr. Hedlund were to run a survey featuring ONLY the old logo vs a logo depecting a real Seminole, ala our statue "UNCONQUERED"?
Those two choices. Head to head. No other options. Using the same original 6872 respondents.
A caricature vs something representing true Seminole authenticity.
Now, those results would be telling;---- and perhaps not in a very good way.
 
This post is horrible.

Haven't you seen Seminole Indians with 1 HUGE feather pinned into their hair by an 'FSU' scrunchie?  
Don't fall for his troll.  





This post was edited on 7/1 7:42 AM by FSUFanChris

7/1 7:42 AM | IP: Logged


 I didn't see your first post above asking me a question. Both the new logo haters and the administration are missing the big picture of the future of our relationship with The Tribe. Both your intentions are misplaced. However, I'm with you. I dislike the new logo. Please ask your question correctly. What, exactly, about the logo preludes it from being a Seminole from The Seminole Tribe of Florida? We as an institution need to differentiate the Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma and The Seminole Tribe of Florida because we have a special relationship with The Tribe from Florida not the one in Oklahoma or a mid plains Indian. Don't laugh the pc are making progress against mascots, logos and nicknames. That icon is not one of a Seminole Indian. Please read this site. It will substantiate what I am saying. It even has a section on the evolution of how the Seminoles changed their hair and headdress through the decades. I find it compelling. Others will not. Historically, we need to honor The Tribe to keep their and our traditions in place. 

This post was edited on 6/30 11:36 PM by Noleman#1

This post was edited on 7/1 12:08 AM by Noleman#1


Hi, Noleman, thank you for the response.  Sorry if I came off a little aggro last night.  This is just a frustrating topic for me because I ask this question all the time and no one will answer it.  I appreciate you writing back.

However, I still don't see where you've said why the logo couldn't be a Seminole.  I agree with everything you're saying about honoring the Seminoles, but that is separate from what I'm asking.  I appreciate the link you provided and did look at the site.  Perhaps I wasn't looking in the right places, but I didn't see anything there either that precluded the logo from being a Seminole.

So, I'm hoping that you or someone can tell me why, exactly the logo can't be a Seminole.  The response that I'm hoping not to get is "it's a plains Indian".  I know that is the assertion.  The answer I'm hoping to get is something along the lines of, "because of x part of the logo being like this, he can't be a Seminole because on a Seminole x feature would be like this".  I hope that makes sense. 

I would like for someone to tell me EXACTLY and SPECIFICALLY why the logo couldn't be a Seminole.  So far, no one has been willing or able.
7/1 7:47 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by Bad Nole:


Originally posted by ChopHouse:

I wonder what would happen if Dr. Hedlund were to run a survey featuring ONLY the old logo vs a logo depecting a real Seminole, ala our statue "UNCONQUERED"?
Those two choices. Head to head. No other options. Using the same original 6872 respondents.
A caricature vs something representing true Seminole authenticity.
Now, those results would be telling;---- and perhaps not in a very good way.
 
This post is horrible.

So I guess that we can assume that you would not suppoet an UNCONQUERED logo.
7/1 8:19 AM | IP: Logged
I like the new logo but obviously I'm in the minority.  If FSU is going to make a change (from the current logo) then I think we should just revert back to the original.  I'm not crazy about Jodi's logo and I really hate the one in mrcop's sig - IMO that's the worst one of all. 

The people have spoken and if those in charge at FSU want to do the right thing then they'll listen to the fans and change the logo back.  However, those of you who think FSU will see a decrease in sales this year (because of the new logo), you are mistaken.  If we had changed the logo after finishing 12-2 then I think we would see a huge hit in sales, but since we won the NC FSU merchandise is flying off the rack - new logo or not.  If may take a couple of years for anyone to realize that the new logo is hurting sales but by that time it will likely be too late to make any changes since every old logo around the school, on stationary, documents, school buildings, etc will have already been changed.  The new logo haters have a major uphill battle ahead of them.  Obviously this report is a good first step in the right direction for them, but nonetheless it's going to be a long battle. 
7/1 8:45 AM | IP: Logged
It is a wrong assertion to paint those who dislike the new logo as disliking anything new. I personally do not like the new logo because it is ugly on its own merit. While it is true that I do like the traditional logo, it does not mean I wouldn't support a new logo if that new logo was a nice one. It might not be my preference but I would support it. The lack of support for the current logo is not just about the fact it is a change but, about the fact that it is not very good.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

7/1 8:56 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by ChopHouse:

I wonder what would happen if Dr. Hedlund were to run a survey featuring ONLY the old logo vs a logo depecting a real Seminole, ala our statue "UNCONQUERED"?
Those two choices. Head to head. No other options. Using the same original 6872 respondents.
A caricature vs something representing true Seminole authenticity.
Now, those results would be telling;---- and perhaps not in a very good way.
 
Your posts get worse and worse every day.  
7/1 9:02 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by CobraEatr:
I like the new logo but obviously I'm in the minority.  If FSU is going to make a change (from the current logo) then I think we should just revert back to the original.  I'm not crazy about Jodi's logo and I really hate the one in mrcop's sig - IMO that's the worst one of all. 

The people have spoken and if those in charge at FSU want to do the right thing then they'll listen to the fans and change the logo back.  However, those of you who think FSU will see a decrease in sales this year (because of the new logo), you are mistaken.  If we had changed the logo after finishing 12-2 then I think we would see a huge hit in sales, but since we won the NC FSU merchandise is flying off the rack - new logo or not.  If may take a couple of years for anyone to realize that the new logo is hurting sales but by that time it will likely be too late to make any changes since every old logo around the school, on stationary, documents, school buildings, etc will have already been changed.  The new logo haters have a major uphill battle ahead of them.  Obviously this report is a good first step in the right direction for them, but nonetheless it's going to be a long battle. 
You bring up a good point -- FSU stuff is going to sell this year because of the title. We could have changed our logo to a purple butterfly, and our stuff would sell.

However, this does not mean that the logo is not causing a decrease in sales. How much MORE in revenue would FSU had realized had it stayed with the old logo or had made less drastic changes (like Jodi's)? You have to separate the "title effect" from the "logo effect" in calculating change in sales. The title effect is huge and positive but fleeting. That may more than make up the short term logo effect in terms of gross sales, but there are opportunity costs that need to be quantified.

Kerr Downs, the marketing team that released this report, could actually calculate an estimate of lost sales due to the logo...without too much additional research. This report lays the groundwork for it.

Most interesting in all of this will be FSU's reaction. Will they fall back on the patently misleading and overly simplistic "See, merchandise sales went up from last year, so people like the logo" stance? Or will they dig a little deeper, admit that sales were going to rise regardless, and see what the logo impact is to the bottom line over the long term?
7/1 9:03 AM | IP: Logged
Also as brought up before - license plates if changed would see a drastic drop!
7/1 9:12 AM | IP: Logged
Jam? Jerry?  You guys heard any negative results because of the new logo?
7/1 9:13 AM | IP: Logged
The majority of respondents prefer the traditional logo. That is a fact.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

7/1 9:19 AM | IP: Logged
I definitely like the old logo but I would take Slade's in a heartbeat over the new one..
7/1 9:24 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by DSTNole:
Jam? Jerry?  You guys heard any negative results because of the new logo?
Hey claim nothing...  I've seen them write that if it wasn't for Warchant they would have no idea there was a problem with Q boy.  All because sales are doing good (because of national champ) they think we will be set for the future which was proven wrong with the study.  Q walmart boy will not last and they basically just sit back and stay away from this thread.  
7/1 9:32 AM | IP: Logged
MrCop's Logo is AWESOME.  Looks like he just wants to kick your....    Q Boy, not so much.

Just saying.


7/1 9:54 AM | IP: Logged
That's twice you called out Jamie and Jerry in this thread. Time to stop.

This post was edited on 7/1 9:23 PM by Crowl

7/1 9:58 AM | IP: Logged
Has anyone gotten the opinion of Devoe Moore on the logo topic??????????????

Dot?  An interview? Anything?

I do believe Mr. Moore's opinion carries some weight.
7/1 10:58 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by darlingknight27:

Originally posted by booker20:
I'm honestly surprised how well the Jodi image did...  even compared up against the original (looked to be a 5-4 split in favor of the Original vs. Slade).

As many have already stated, thanks for all your hard work.
Its interesting, however the most probable take is that jodi's logo is the lesser of two evils, and if fans couldn't keep the original logo, they would much prefer Jodi's since it looks so much like the original. You can still see in the results that if given the choice between the two fans prefer the old logo, but I suspect if the "new logo" wa out of the picture and it was just the original chief versus Jodi's, jodi's wouldn't do early as good, but then again she was responding to the "necessary changes" that the new logo was supposed to fix .  . . (until we found out that the new logo doesn't fix ANY of those issues).
And you know what.. I am good with that.  I would go out and buy stuff with Jodi's logo on it.  
7/1 11:08 AM | IP: Logged
Is anyone else joining me in sending the athletic department more emails to let them know that we're aware of this research, and we're aware that THEY'RE AWARE of this research?

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

7/1 11:14 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Shade Tree 55:
Is anyone else joining me in sending the athletic department more emails to let them know that we're aware of this research, and we're aware that THEY'RE AWARE of this research?

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


I know its probably been posted on multiple occasions but can you give me the contact info of the best individual to email? I'd be happy to put in a few calls as well...
Thanks
7/1 11:22 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by ChopHouse:

I wonder what would happen if Dr. Hedlund were to run a survey featuring ONLY the old logo vs a logo depecting a real Seminole, ala our statue "UNCONQUERED"?
Those two choices. Head to head. No other options. Using the same original 6872 respondents.
A caricature vs something representing true Seminole authenticity.
Now, those results would be telling;---- and perhaps not in a very good way.
 
Nope. That's what market research is for. The admin has egg (and worse) on their face now because they obviously did inadequate or no research on the changes. If they want to make it look like anything than what it was, they need to do their own market research, not force those outside the admin to do the research afterwards.

Even then, after the response they got it seems that anything that isn't the old  logo would lose out significantly. Jodi's did well, but if it were just between the two, the numbers would be much less for hers because a big factor in positive responses to jodis was that it LOOKS SO MUCH LIKE THE OLD ONE.
7/1 11:29 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by CobraEatr:
I like the new logo but obviously I'm in the minority.  If FSU is going to make a change (from the current logo) then I think we should just revert back to the original.  I'm not crazy about Jodi's logo and I really hate the one in mrcop's sig - IMO that's the worst one of all. 

The people have spoken and if those in charge at FSU want to do the right thing then they'll listen to the fans and change the logo back.  However, those of you who think FSU will see a decrease in sales this year (because of the new logo), you are mistaken.  If we had changed the logo after finishing 12-2 then I think we would see a huge hit in sales, but since we won the NC FSU merchandise is flying off the rack - new logo or not.  If may take a couple of years for anyone to realize that the new logo is hurting sales but by that time it will likely be too late to make any changes since every old logo around the school, on stationary, documents, school buildings, etc will have already been changed.  The new logo haters have a major uphill battle ahead of them.  Obviously this report is a good first step in the right direction for them, but nonetheless it's going to be a long battle. 
Cobra this is the most sensible post I have ready. I was thinking the same thing.  I am a supporter of the old logo but I thought to myself if I was in that 10% and 90% love the new logo I would understand that others must be seeing something that I am not and i will accept it.  I would not double and triple down just to be right.  Like you said, this poll has spoken volumes and now we need to unite again and get ready for the upcoming season.
7/1 11:32 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by Captain Black:

Originally posted by Shade Tree 55:
Is anyone else joining me in sending the athletic department more emails to let them know that we're aware of this research, and we're aware that THEY'RE AWARE of this research?

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


I know its probably been posted on multiple occasions but can you give me the contact info of the best individual to email? I'd be happy to put in a few calls as well...
Thanks



mbonasorte@admin.fsu.edu
aarcher@fsu.edu
ecole@fsu.edu
jdediemar@fsu.edu
swilcox2@fsu.edu


Posted from wireless.rivals.com

7/1 11:36 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by bigeasynole:


Originally posted by darlingknight27:

Originally posted by booker20:
I'm honestly surprised how well the Jodi image did...  even compared up against the original (looked to be a 5-4 split in favor of the Original vs. Slade).

As many have already stated, thanks for all your hard work.
Its interesting, however the most probable take is that jodi's logo is the lesser of two evils, and if fans couldn't keep the original logo, they would much prefer Jodi's since it looks so much like the original. You can still see in the results that if given the choice between the two fans prefer the old logo, but I suspect if the "new logo" wa out of the picture and it was just the original chief versus Jodi's, jodi's wouldn't do early as good, but then again she was responding to the "necessary changes" that the new logo was supposed to fix .  . . (until we found out that the new logo doesn't fix ANY of those issues).
And you know what.. I am good with that.  I would go out and buy stuff with Jodi's logo on it.  

I agree, and I would bet good money that most of the fans would agree too. Personally, I would still like the old logo better than Jodi's, but I wouldn't have made a big fuss over it, and certainly wouldn't boycott Jodi's. It looks more like an update to the old comfortable logo, one that perhaps the fans actually could come to love. Its not as cartoony as Chief Walmart, or the other "options" floating around.
7/1 11:37 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by darlingknight27:

Its interesting, however the most probable take is that jodi's logo is the lesser of two evils, and if fans couldn't keep the original logo, they would much prefer Jodi's since it looks so much like the original. You can still see in the results that if given the choice between the two fans prefer the old logo, but I suspect if the "new logo" wa out of the picture and it was just the original chief versus Jodi's, jodi's wouldn't do early as good, but then again she was responding to the "necessary changes" that the new logo was supposed to fix .  . . (until we found out that the new logo doesn't fix ANY of those issues).

And you know what.. I am good with that.  I would go out and buy stuff with Jodi's logo on it.  

I agree, and I would bet good money that most of the fans would agree too. Personally, I would still like the old logo better than Jodi's, but I wouldn't have made a big fuss over it, and certainly wouldn't boycott Jodi's. It looks more like an update to the old comfortable logo, one that perhaps the fans actually could come to love. Its not as cartoony as Chief Walmart, or the other "options" floating around.
+1 agree 
7/1 11:46 AM | IP: Logged

Is anyone still defending the new Q logo? The results of the survey are devastating and shows this was an epic fail. Time for FSU to realize this is not working and get rid of the Ignition Tradition changes.
7/1 12:10 PM | IP: Logged

It seems the defense of the new logo has devolved into "Well, the Seminole Tribe of Florida approved it, so let's not risk alienating them", as if they somehow didn't approve of the old logo too.  Are we going to have to get their approval on who is selected as the new FSU President?  I'm now more concerned by the Athletic administration's deafness to those who don't like the new logo.  The new FSU policy seems to be "Our way or the highway".
7/1 12:21 PM | IP: Logged
Well, if you want to know how I voted, since I was called out in this thread...  I voted I liked the new logo, & I liked the old logo.  Just because I happen to like the new one doesn't mean I don't like the old.  I own a lot of things with the old logo on them. 

Am I destroyed by these results?  No...
7/1 12:44 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by -OB1-:
Well, if you want to know how I voted, since I was called out in this thread...  I voted I liked the new logo, & I liked the old logo.  Just because I happen to like the new one doesn't mean I don't like the old.  I own a lot of things with the old logo on them. 

Am I destroyed by these results?  No...
Its good to know that if something did happen and we went back to old logo or jodi's that you would be cool with that.  I think and  hope that is the way we go so that we all can get back on the same train and that is winning another national championship!
7/1 12:50 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by ChopHouse:


Originally posted by Truly 'Nolen:

Dude, they are the same tribe.  One group was conquered and relocated to a reservation in Oklahoma and one wasn't.  The difference ends there.

Truly, you couldn't be more wrong.
One group was conquered, and the other was unconquered, and they're the same?
Dude, I wouldn't try that logic out on the Seminole Tribe of Florida.

So one group is relocated to a reservation, but no they weren't conquered?  Facts don't really mesh with you do they?  As we already know.
7/1 1:32 PM | IP: Logged
The imposter logo will be gone in less than two years.  However, there is no way we go back to the real logo.  When CWM goes away, the Seminole Head logo will be no more.
7/1 1:54 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by bigeasynole:


Originally posted by -OB1-:
Well, if you want to know how I voted, since I was called out in this thread...  I voted I liked the new logo, & I liked the old logo.  Just because I happen to like the new one doesn't mean I don't like the old.  I own a lot of things with the old logo on them. 

Am I destroyed by these results?  No...
Its good to know that if something did happen and we went back to old logo or jodi's that you would be cool with that.  I think and  hope that is the way we go so that we all can get back on the same train and that is winning another national championship!

I think most of FSU fans are on the same train..... I'm not being a smart ass but every normal (not on WC) fan I've spoken too rushes to tell me how much they hate the new logo and want the original back, or something close. But no one is pulling support for sure in the masses, maybe on here, but not out there. 

The most important thing this research suggests is that FSU and Nike are going to get a swift kick in the nuts over this when the final sales figures come out for 2014. Then it will just keep dwindling year after year because people truly, honestly don't want to wear that thing, they think it's goofy looking, and it is honestly. 
7/1 2:12 PM | IP: Logged
I wonder what vendors would make of these findings? 

This post was edited on 7/1 3:16 PM by wrdsmth

7/1 2:31 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by james_j69_2001:
The imposter logo will be gone in less than two years.  However, there is no way we go back to the real logo.  When CWM goes away, the Seminole Head logo will be no more.
EXACTLY!
But I'm not too sure that the new logo will be gone in two years.
7/1 2:42 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by ChopHouse:


Originally posted by james_j69_2001:
The imposter logo will be gone in less than two years.  However, there is no way we go back to the real logo.  When CWM goes away, the Seminole Head logo will be no more.
EXACTLY!
But I'm not too sure that the new logo will be gone in two years.

Chop, I love you and I mean this in the nicest possible way, but please don't agree with me.  People will see.  You understand, don't you?
7/1 2:55 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by james_j69_2001:

Originally posted by ChopHouse:


Originally posted by james_j69_2001:
The imposter logo will be gone in less than two years.  However, there is no way we go back to the real logo.  When CWM goes away, the Seminole Head logo will be no more.
EXACTLY!
But I'm not too sure that the new logo will be gone in two years.

Chop, I love you and I mean this in the nicest possible way, but please don't agree with me.  People will see.  You understand, don't you?
7/1 3:17 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by james_j69_2001:

Originally posted by ChopHouse:


Originally posted by james_j69_2001:
The imposter logo will be gone in less than two years.  However, there is no way we go back to the real logo.  When CWM goes away, the Seminole Head logo will be no more.
EXACTLY!
But I'm not too sure that the new logo will be gone in two years.

Chop, I love you and I mean this in the nicest possible way, but please don't agree with me.  People will see.  You understand, don't you?
At first I was a bit hurt, James, but after due dilligence I have come to understand.
Let's just say that both of us KNOW that the old logo is gone caput.
7/1 3:20 PM | IP: Logged


Chop, I love you and I mean this in the nicest possible way, but please don't agree with me.  People will see.  You understand, don't you?
At first I was a bit hurt, James, but after due dilligence I have come to understand.
Let's just say that both of us KNOW that the old logo is gone caput.
Unfortunately, I think that's true.  In re-reading the official statement back in April, I noticed something that doesn't get talked about much.

"During the research phase of the project, we were stunned by the results
of a meeting with current student-athletes held over a year ago.  When
asked what they considered to be our primary symbol, the group was
unanimous in listing the Spear.  In contrast, groups representing our
coaches, supporters and administrators all listed the Seminole Head.
This revelation reinforced a growing concern as we have seen a steady
decline in the use of the Seminole Head logo on uniforms and fan apparel
over the years."

Now let me preface by saying that I don't believe a word of that statement and figure it for an outright lie.  Anyhow, to me, that reads like whoever wrote the statement (it just says "FSU Athletics") wouldn't be sad to see the head logo go away altogether.  When (yes, when) this new logo fails and is pulled, I think that may be when we see a spear at the 50 yard line.
7/1 3:27 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by james_j69_2001:

Originally posted by ChopHouse:


Originally posted by james_j69_2001:
The imposter logo will be gone in less than two years.  However, there is no way we go back to the real logo.  When CWM goes away, the Seminole Head logo will be no more.
EXACTLY!
But I'm not too sure that the new logo will be gone in two years.

Chop, I love you and I mean this in the nicest possible way, but please don't agree with me.  People will see.  You understand, don't you?


This post was edited on 7/1 3:31 PM by FSUFanChris

7/1 3:30 PM | IP: Logged
Chop needs to learn how to read the results. 
7/1 3:47 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by emeraldnole:


Originally posted by bigeasynole:


Originally posted by -OB1-:
Well, if you want to know how I voted, since I was called out in this thread...  I voted I liked the new logo, & I liked the old logo.  Just because I happen to like the new one doesn't mean I don't like the old.  I own a lot of things with the old logo on them. 

Am I destroyed by these results?  No...
Its good to know that if something did happen and we went back to old logo or jodi's that you would be cool with that.  I think and  hope that is the way we go so that we all can get back on the same train and that is winning another national championship!

I think most of FSU fans are on the same train..... I'm not being a smart ass but every normal (not on WC) fan I've spoken too rushes to tell me how much they hate the new logo and want the original back, or something close. But no one is pulling support for sure in the masses, maybe on here, but not out there. 

The most important thing this research suggests is that FSU and Nike are going to get a swift kick in the nuts over this when the final sales figures come out for 2014. Then it will just keep dwindling year after year because people truly, honestly don't want to wear that thing, they think it's goofy looking, and it is honestly. 

Now I fear a rush of people wanting to go out a buy a new logo shirt for a collectors item when they eventually take it away.  It might be worth something then.   ha!
7/1 3:49 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by NoleMac:
Chop needs to learn how to read the results. 
Chop gunna chop.  

Q boy gunna Q boy.  


7/1 4:10 PM | IP: Logged
I just sent the following to mbonasorte@admin.fsu.edu, aarcher@fsu.edu, ecole@fsu.edu, jdediemar@fsu.edu, swilcox2@fsu.edu, rlwilson@mailer.fsu.edu, vfuchs@admin.fsu.edu, gstokes@fsu.edu, lizm@fsu.edu, cmhartmann@fsu.edu, efinebloom@fsu.edu, jdennard@fsu.edu, ssutton@fsu.edu, dlongenecker@fsu.edu, and nhaves@fsu.edu.

Dear FSU Admin and Staff,

I hope that this message is finding its
way to the right people.  I have no way of knowing because of the lack
of transparency throughout FSU's rebranding process. 

I am
writing regarding the Public Opinion Research done by Germain, Hedlund,
and McPhatter.  I'm sure you are all familiar with it, but if for
whatever reason you haven't seen it the report can be found here:
http://www.kerr-downs.com/FSULogoReport.pdf

This research shows
that due diligence was either not done or the results ignored when
changing the Seminole head logo.  This is contrary to FSU's official
statement, which notes that "groups representing our student athletes,
coaches, Boosters, and university administration were consulted during
the process".

I understand that the logo has already been adopted
and that there is no going back, regardless of the fact that only about
8% of any group, FSU-afiliated or not, approve of the new logo.   I
understand that there has been too much time and money invested to pull
out.  All I am asking for is a change in the stubborn and clandestine
manner in which this is being handled.  Please engage your students,
alumni, and Boosters positively and with the respect that we deserve. 
Give us the real reasons behind the logo change and the details of the
process.  What departments, specifically were involved?  Why was
research not done along the lines of the above referenced report?  The
statement that was released in April is now, in retrospect, quite
insulting.  We deserve more than that.



Feel free to use it if you want.

edit: Sorry for the weird formatting.  Not sure why it did that.

This post was edited on 7/1 4:16 PM by james_j69_2001

7/1 4:14 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by james_j69_2001:


 I didn't see your first post above asking me a question. Both the new logo haters and the administration are missing the big picture of the future of our relationship with The Tribe. Both your intentions are misplaced. However, I'm with you. I dislike the new logo. Please ask your question correctly. What, exactly, about the logo preludes it from being a Seminole from The Seminole Tribe of Florida? We as an institution need to differentiate the Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma and The Seminole Tribe of Florida because we have a special relationship with The Tribe from Florida not the one in Oklahoma or a mid plains Indian. Don't laugh the pc are making progress against mascots, logos and nicknames. That icon is not one of a Seminole Indian. Please read this site. It will substantiate what I am saying. It even has a section on the evolution of how the Seminoles changed their hair and headdress through the decades. I find it compelling. Others will not. Historically, we need to honor The Tribe to keep their and our traditions in place. 

This post was edited on 6/30 11:36 PM by Noleman#1

This post was edited on 7/1 12:08 AM by Noleman#1


Hi, Noleman, thank you for the response.  Sorry if I came off a little aggro last night.  This is just a frustrating topic for me because I ask this question all the time and no one will answer it.  I appreciate you writing back.

However, I still don't see where you've said why the logo couldn't be a Seminole.  I agree with everything you're saying about honoring the Seminoles, but that is separate from what I'm asking.  I appreciate the link you provided and did look at the site.  Perhaps I wasn't looking in the right places, but I didn't see anything there either that precluded the logo from being a Seminole.

So, I'm hoping that you or someone can tell me why, exactly the logo can't be a Seminole.  The response that I'm hoping not to get is "it's a plains Indian".  I know that is the assertion.  The answer I'm hoping to get is something along the lines of, "because of x part of the logo being like this, he can't be a Seminole because on a Seminole x feature would be like this".  I hope that makes sense. 

I would like for someone to tell me EXACTLY and SPECIFICALLY why the logo couldn't be a Seminole.  So far, no one has been willing or able.
Hi James, no worries. I understand your question and I am making sure I answer it to your satisfaction and mine. You bring up a very good point, which is, exactly, why is it different. I am waiting to get more info. I'm just as interested as you are. I'm doing some inquiries but might take a bit to retrieve the info.  In the mean time, this is an authentic Florida Seminole Indian. There is a definitive difference between the old/new logo and this one. Notice the turban and plume feathers. This guy is unconquered. The other, if anything, might be a conquered Oklahoma Seminole. There is a difference and we have an agreement with The Seminole Tribe of Florida.   



Original FSU Symbol






This post was edited on 7/1 5:52 PM by Noleman#1

This post was edited on 7/1 8:10 PM by Noleman#1

This post was edited on 7/1 8:33 PM by Noleman#1

7/1 4:47 PM | IP: Logged
Why not evolve into either a realistic image of Osceola or the Unconqered Statue...the true spirit and essence of an enduring people that were brave, stood for what they believed in, and were tencious to the last 100 warriors!! Braveheart and the Spartans were not that tenacious!!

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

7/1 4:51 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by james_j69_2001:


Chop, I love you and I mean this in the nicest possible way, but please don't agree with me.  People will see.  You understand, don't you?
At first I was a bit hurt, James, but after due dilligence I have come to understand.
Let's just say that both of us KNOW that the old logo is gone caput.
Unfortunately, I think that's true.  In re-reading the official statement back in April, I noticed something that doesn't get talked about much.

"During the research phase of the project, we were stunned by the results
of a meeting with current student-athletes held over a year ago.  When
asked what they considered to be our primary symbol, the group was
unanimous in listing the Spear.  In contrast, groups representing our
coaches, supporters and administrators all listed the Seminole Head.
This revelation reinforced a growing concern as we have seen a steady
decline in the use of the Seminole Head logo on uniforms and fan apparel
over the years."

Now let me preface by saying that I don't believe a word of that statement and figure it for an outright lie.  Anyhow, to me, that reads like whoever wrote the statement (it just says "FSU Athletics") wouldn't be sad to see the head logo go away altogether.  When (yes, when) this new logo fails and is pulled, I think that may be when we see a spear at the 50 yard line.


Just when I thought that we had some semblance of comradship in the works, you had to go and post that.

Not all of what was said in the oficial statement back  in April is "an outright lie".
Surely we all know that there has been a steady decline in the use of the Seminole head logo over the years.
I checked the Seminole gear my closet and found only a few items that I purchased in the last several years that used the Seminole head logo. And believe me, I've got plenty of Seminole gear in my closets.

We don't know what the future will bring.

However, one thing is glaringly evident: If the new Seminole logo is replaced, it won't be replaced with the old logo.
The old logo is kaput.
7/1 5:06 PM | IP: Logged
So since the student athletes didn't identify with the old logo, they thought the smart idea was to make a horrible joke version of it?
Genius move.
And this somehow proves the old logo can never come back? Wouldn't call that sound logic.

Someone go ask Derwin James which logo he identifies with.
7/1 5:31 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by ChopHouse:

Originally posted by james_j69_2001:


Chop, I love you and I mean this in the nicest possible way, but please don't agree with me.  People will see.  You understand, don't you?
At first I was a bit hurt, James, but after due dilligence I have come to understand.
Let's just say that both of us KNOW that the old logo is gone caput.
Unfortunately, I think that's true.  In re-reading the official statement back in April, I noticed something that doesn't get talked about much.

"During the research phase of the project, we were stunned by the results
of a meeting with current student-athletes held over a year ago.  When
asked what they considered to be our primary symbol, the group was
unanimous in listing the Spear.  In contrast, groups representing our
coaches, supporters and administrators all listed the Seminole Head.
This revelation reinforced a growing concern as we have seen a steady
decline in the use of the Seminole Head logo on uniforms and fan apparel
over the years."

Now let me preface by saying that I don't believe a word of that statement and figure it for an outright lie.  Anyhow, to me, that reads like whoever wrote the statement (it just says "FSU Athletics") wouldn't be sad to see the head logo go away altogether.  When (yes, when) this new logo fails and is pulled, I think that may be when we see a spear at the 50 yard line.


Just when I thought that we had some semblance of comradship in the works, you had to go and post that.

Not all of what was said in the oficial statement back  in April is "an outright lie".
Surely we all know that there has been a steady decline in the use of the Seminole head logo over the years.
I checked the Seminole gear my closet and found only a few items that I purchased in the last several years that used the Seminole head logo. And believe me, I've got plenty of Seminole gear in my closets.

We don't know what the future will bring.

However, one thing is glaringly evident: If the new Seminole logo is replaced, it won't be replaced with the old logo.
The old logo is kaput.
Nah, The old logo can come back. Fire monk, fire whomever gave him the marching orders, and the next group of admin can reinstate the old logo or jodi's at worst. "The old logo is kaput" means "I dont want the old loo back." It could be back today with a couple of calls and letters.
7/1 5:33 PM | IP: Logged
Chophouse, why so defensive over the official statement being called a lie? Maybe you are part of this debacle.
7/1 5:34 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by mandarinole:
So since the student athletes didn't identify with the old logo, they thought the smart idea was to make a horrible joke version of it?
Genius move.
And this somehow proves the old logo can never come back? Wouldn't call that sound logic.

Someone go ask Derwin James which logo he identifies with.
Shh, the 7 % might hear you.
7/1 5:37 PM | IP: Logged
Hey chop - how are you so certain the old logo is gone?

Seems like the anti-original logo posters are throwing out anything to see what may stick. Pretty much what they have doing all along, eh?

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

7/1 5:55 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by jaypost:
Hey chop - how are you so certain the old logo is gone?

Seems like the anti-original logo posters are throwing out anything to see what may stick. Pretty much what they have doing all along, eh?

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


Logical post is too logical. 
7/1 5:57 PM | IP: Logged
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