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I don't know why it took UF trying to get top 10 status for us to become this aggressive, but I like it.

Here's the email from Advocate for Florida State.

Don't just sit on your rears now.  Type up an email and send it out.  If we don't want to get shafted in favor of other universities in the state, we need to make sure we're heard.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends and Colleagues:




President Barron submitted a
proposal to the legislature and governor that is designed to advance
Florida State University to a top 25 national ranking among public
universities. The proposal is available for you to review on
the Advocate
for Florida State
 website, along with talking points for this
plan and a general
message
 from the president.



Some key legislators have expressed
support for the Top 25 Proposal and I encourage you to contact your state
legislators to convey your support of the plan, and urge
them to back it as well. By registering through
the Advocate website, the process of contacting your legislators is easy;
plus, a sample message for you to use is also provided.



Please feel free to share this
message with friends, family members and colleagues and ask them to also
express support of this proposal to their state senator and
representative. 




Thank you, in advance, adding your
voice to this initiative to further elevate our university's national
preeminence.



In Seminole Spirit,



 



Kathleen Daly


Assistant Vice President for
Governmental Relations
------------------------------------------------------------------------
2/7 12:08 PM | IP: Logged
He said last night it has the Governor's support.
2/7 12:34 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by nolemanb:
He said last night it has the Governor's support.
Outstanding.  Should have been like this from the beginning.
2/7 2:10 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by nolemanb:
He said last night it has the Governor's support.
Very nice.

Thank you, Dr. Barron, for your leadership.
2/7 2:49 PM | IP: Logged
Dr. Barron is awesome.  So ridiculous how little support he gets on the Tribal Council.  We are an institution of higher learning first, and there's no one I trust to keep my University relevant academically than Dr. Barron.
2/7 3:02 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by Seminole'13:
I don't know why it took UF trying to get top 10 status for us to become this aggressive, but I like it.

Here's the email from Advocate for Florida State.

Don't just sit on your rears now.  Type up an email and send it out.  If we don't want to get shafted in favor of other universities in the state, we need to make sure we're heard.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends and Colleagues:




President Barron submitted a
proposal to the legislature and governor that is designed to advance
Florida State University to a top 25 national ranking among public
universities. The proposal is available for you to review on
the Advocate
for Florida State
 website, along with talking points for this
plan and a general
message
 from the president.



Some key legislators have expressed
support for the Top 25 Proposal and I encourage you to contact your state
legislators to convey your support of the plan, and urge
them to back it as well. By registering through
the Advocate website, the process of contacting your legislators is easy;
plus, a sample message for you to use is also provided.



Please feel free to share this
message with friends, family members and colleagues and ask them to also
express support of this proposal to their state senator and
representative. 




Thank you, in advance, adding your
voice to this initiative to further elevate our university's national
preeminence.



In Seminole Spirit,






Kathleen Daly


Assistant Vice President for
Governmental Relations
------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is exactly what I have been saying here the past couple of weeks.  Why does it seem like UF has to be the one to kick and scream for FSU to either object or jump on the bandwagon?  It also seems like many of the people here are against UF getting more support as opposed to FSU getting similiar support as UF does?  As the saying goes:  "lead, follow, or get out of the way!"

This post was edited on 2/7 4:27 PM by DolphinsHeatGators

2/7 3:26 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:





Originally posted by Seminole'13:
I don't know why it took UF trying to get top 10 status for us to become this aggressive, but I like it.

Here's the email from Advocate for Florida State.

Don't just sit on your rears now.  Type up an email and send it out.  If we don't want to get shafted in favor of other universities in the state, we need to make sure we're heard.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends and Colleagues:




President Barron submitted a
proposal to the legislature and governor that is designed to advance
Florida State University to a top 25 national ranking among public
universities. The proposal is available for you to review on
the Advocate
for Florida State
 website, along with talking points for this
plan and a general
message
 from the president.



Some key legislators have expressed
support for the Top 25 Proposal and I encourage you to contact your state
legislators to convey your support of the plan, and urge
them to back it as well. By registering through
the Advocate website, the process of contacting your legislators is easy;
plus, a sample message for you to use is also provided.



Please feel free to share this
message with friends, family members and colleagues and ask them to also
express support of this proposal to their state senator and
representative. 




Thank you, in advance, adding your
voice to this initiative to further elevate our university's national
preeminence.



In Seminole Spirit,






Kathleen Daly



Assistant Vice President for
Governmental Relations
------------------------------------------------------------------------





This is exactly what I have been saying here the past couple of weeks.  Why does it seem like UF has to be the one to kick and scream for them FSU either object or jump on the bandwagon?  It also seems like many of people here are against UF getting more support as opposed to FSU getting similiar support as UF does?  As the saying goes:  "lead, follow, or get out of the way!"




You are mischaracterizing the situation. UF is not inviting FSU to kick and scream with it!  Why are you ignoring direct quotes in the articles linked?  It's quite clear form the quotes in the article that UF is not "leading" anyone, especially FSU, and that the UF alumni in the legislature have marching orders to block FSU from receiving any additional money.  UF wants FSU excluded from the party.
2/7 3:40 PM | IP: Logged
I have been registered and get the emails for some time now, but what about registering makes it easier to contact my legislators? I didnt see anywhere on my profile that showed me who to contact. I still had to go to the goverment site and search my district to get the info I needed. Is there something I am missing on the site that makes it easier?
2/7 3:53 PM | IP: Logged
this should take you  directly to the form, it will send it to the correct legislators based on your address. you may have to be logged in for it to work.  https://secure3.convio.net/ad4fsu/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=130
2/8 2:29 AM | IP: Logged

Thanks, not sure how I missed that. Def much easier.

2/8 3:15 PM | IP: Logged
Good move, but how long until all the state universities come out with similar "plans"?

"UCF and USF announce plans to reach top 50."
"UWF, FAU and FIU announce plans to reach top 100."

You get $15 million, you get $15 million, you get $15 million, everyone gets $15 million! 
2/9 2:01 AM | IP: Logged
That was the point of the preeminence bill. Schools had meet certain criteria. In any event, FSU and UF were formed by the same act 160 years ago and are our oldest and most prominent institutions of higher learning.
2/9 8:43 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by NoleOne:



Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:





Originally posted by Seminole'13:
I don't know why it took UF trying to get top 10 status for us to become this aggressive, but I like it.

Here's the email from Advocate for Florida State.

Don't just sit on your rears now.  Type up an email and send it out.  If we don't want to get shafted in favor of other universities in the state, we need to make sure we're heard.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends and Colleagues:



President Barron submitted a
proposal to the legislature and governor that is designed to advance
Florida State University to a top 25 national ranking among public
universities. The proposal is available for you to review on
the Advocate
for Florida State
 website, along with talking points for this
plan and a general
message
 from the president.


Some key legislators have expressed
support for the Top 25 Proposal and I encourage you to contact your state
legislators to convey your support of the plan, and urge
them to back it as well. By registering through
the Advocate website, the process of contacting your legislators is easy;
plus, a sample message for you to use is also provided.


Please feel free to share this
message with friends, family members and colleagues and ask them to also
express support of this proposal to their state senator and
representative. 



Thank you, in advance, adding your
voice to this initiative to further elevate our university's national
preeminence.


In Seminole Spirit,





Kathleen Daly



Assistant Vice President for
Governmental Relations
------------------------------------------------------------------------





This is exactly what I have been saying here the past couple of weeks.  Why does it seem like UF has to be the one to kick and scream for them FSU either object or jump on the bandwagon?  It also seems like many of people here are against UF getting more support as opposed to FSU getting similiar support as UF does?  As the saying goes:  "lead, follow, or get out of the way!"




You are mischaracterizing the situation. UF is not inviting FSU to kick and scream with it!  Why are you ignoring direct quotes in the articles linked?  It's quite clear form the quotes in the article that UF is not "leading" anyone, especially FSU, and that the UF alumni in the legislature have marching orders to block FSU from receiving any additional money.  UF wants FSU excluded from the party.

Its not UF's responsibility to set FSU's mission... FSU can kick and scream on its own and it doesn't have to keep waiting until UF makes a move!
2/9 10:14 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by NoleOne:
That was the point of the preeminence bill. Schools had meet certain criteria. In any event, FSU and UF were formed by the same act 160 years ago and are our oldest and most prominent institutions of higher learning.

So you're currently against all state schools from getting the $15M?
2/9 10:17 AM | IP: Logged My hope is that all our public universities become adequately funded.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com



Posted on 2/9 11:44 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by NoleOne:
My hope is that all our public universities become adequately funded.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com



"Adequately" funded?  That is subjective... especially if you meaning something other than "equally funded".  Are you saying they all should be equally funded?
2/9 2:04 PM | IP: Logged I'm sorry you aren't happy with a subjective answer. I believe that UF is the only school in the state that has been adequately funded. More than adequate. I think FSU has never been adequately funded, in fact. I think that the objective numbers support my subjective answer.

Explain what you mean by equally funded.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com



Posted on 2/9 8:12 PM | IP: Logged




Originally posted by NoleOne:
I'm sorry you aren't happy with a subjective answer. I believe that UF is the only school in the state that has been adequately funded. More than adequate. I think FSU has never been adequately funded, in fact. I think that the objective numbers support my subjective answer.

Explain what you mean by equally funded.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com




Just wondering, where do you want the money to come from?  Who do you take it away from and/or who do you tax more to get the money, and how much money is needed and how much is enough?
2/9 9:27 PM | IP: Logged
What is the state funding per undergrad student at FSU & UF?
2/10 8:12 AM | IP: Logged
UF receives nearly double the taxpayer dollars per student.

http://www.flbog.edu/about/budget/docs/2012-13-Allocation-Summary_Board-Website_Final.pdf
2/10 9:04 AM | IP: Logged
When cuts were made last year, FSU lost twice as per student as UF in non-recurring appropriations. I would have to check, but i think that UF lost less per student than any other school.

This post was edited on 2/10 10:01 AM by NoleOne

2/10 9:52 AM | IP: Logged
That's a 258 page document and I'm not going to go through it page by page.  Where specifically does it show that funding per undergrad at UF is 2x that at FSU?

2/10 11:32 AM | IP: Logged Page 37 first pie chart for total appropriations that includes special units. Do the math per student. (I like how you conveniently try to narrow it to undergrad. Include special units when beneficial. Exclude special units when UF wants more money.). This is about apples to apples the whole of both schools, of course.

Page 48 for cuts last year. The number is right there. Just a snapshot of how FSU gets hosed on non recurring each year.

Enjoy.



Posted from wireless.rivals.com



Posted on 2/10 12:56 PM | IP: Logged

The thought of gearing your pursuit for excellence around some magazine rankings is silly to me, but I understand why Barron doing it.
2/10 4:39 PM | IP: Logged
You are still speaking about generalities- you are unhappy because you claim FSU was treated unfairly but don't give any numbers.

UF has 3 budget categories: general education, health center and IFAS.  FSU is not a land grant university, so the comparison with UF IFAS money is meaningless.    UF has a large health center with 6 colleges, FSU has a med school only.  The apples to apples comparison can be based on general education funding per capita; undergrad and grad education.  

You keep claiming big differences- show us the numbers.
2/10 6:07 PM | IP: Logged
Equally funded:  each school's funding = total state school funding / number of schools.

Do you agree with the above equation?
2/11 1:28 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:
Equally funded:  each school's funding = total state school funding / number of schools.

Do you agree with the above equation?

I personally don't.

What I support is a differentiation of funding based on research mission. Research universities should receive more funding per head than non-research universities.

Given Florida's size, that number of research universities that should be preferentially considered "top tier" in allocation by the state should be 4-5.

Not just one.
2/11 5:39 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by spear90:
You are still speaking about generalities- you are unhappy because you claim FSU was treated unfairly but don't give any numbers.

UF has 3 budget categories: general education, health center and IFAS.  FSU is not a land grant university, so the comparison with UF IFAS money is meaningless.    UF has a large health center with 6 colleges, FSU has a med school only.  The apples to apples comparison can be based on general education funding per capita; undergrad and grad education.  

You keep claiming big differences- show us the numbers.



I did provide the numbers. They are right in front of your face. I'm not going to do more work for you.  Did you even bother reading my prior posts or looking at the links that I provided?

Even using your supposed "apples-to-apples" comparison FSU got destroyed last year in non-recurring appropriations on a per capita basis compared to UF.  The numbers are right there.

"Meaningless" is your ridiculous opinion of the situation.  Of course you want the "apples to apples" comparison to be based on general education funding per capita.  It allows UF to use its special units to be included in the rankings game and then turn around and exclude the special units when UF is crying poverty to the Florida legislature.  You do the math.  Take the total appropriations received by UF (including special units that are part by UF) and divide it by the total number of students.  Take the total appropriations received by FSU (including special units that are part by FSU) and divide it by the total number of students.  UF gets the lion share of taxpayer dollars no matter what way you spin it.

And as I pointed out in crystal clear numbers, FSU got hosed last year under your declared "apples to apples" comparison.  Look at the pages that I provided.  I'll await your answer.

You and I both know that these are all political games played by UF to keep a chokehold on the lion's share of higher education appropriations and research-based programs.  That system has been fine and dandy for the bragging rights of UF supporters but HORRIBLE for the Florida university system in general.
2/11 5:52 PM | IP: Logged
You claim big differences, but again provide no numbers.  As the advocate, the burden of proof is on you to provide the numbers.
2/11 6:39 PM | IP: Logged
I already did. Read the link. Burden met. Your rebuttal?
2/11 11:35 PM | IP: Logged
Still waiting for you to provide the numbers- linking to a 258 pg article doesn't cut it.  You may be right, but you make claims with no data.
2/12 7:04 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by NoleOne:
Page 37 first pie chart for total appropriations that includes special units. Do the math per student. (I like how you conveniently try to narrow it to undergrad. Include special units when beneficial. Exclude special units when UF wants more money.). This is about apples to apples the whole of both schools, of course.

Page 48 for cuts last year. The number is right there. Just a snapshot of how FSU gets hosed on non recurring each year.

Enjoy.



Posted from wireless.rivals.com



2/12 7:49 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by NoleOne:
UF receives nearly double the taxpayer dollars per student.

http://www.flbog.edu/about/budget/docs/2012-13-Allocation-Summary_Board-Website_Final.pdf


uhhh.. its nowhere close to double.  You didn't do the math correctly.
2/12 11:01 AM | IP: Logged
From page 37...

Total appropriation (including special units):

UF=24.4%
FSU=13.1%

Population:

UF=49,589
FSU=41,710

By my math, for every $1.00 per student spent at FSU, $1.57 is spent per student at UF.

Excluding special units (most of which were granted by the state), that ratio goes down to $1.17 per student at UF.




2/12 12:09 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by TheBrickhouse:
From page 37...

Total appropriation (including special units):

UF=24.4%
FSU=13.1%

Population:

UF=49,589
FSU=41,710

By my math, for every $1.00 per student spent at FSU, $1.57 is spent per student at UF.

Excluding special units (most of which were granted by the state), that ratio goes down to $1.17 per student at UF.






Yup, those are the exact same numbers I got.
2/12 1:08 PM | IP: Logged

So anywhere from 17% to 57% higher per student, depending on how you look at the numbers. I'm no statistician, but I'd say that's pretty significant, no?
2/12 2:53 PM | IP: Logged

If I remember correctly, FSU and UF both have undergraduate
populations of approximately 32,000. That means that FSU has about 9,500
graduate and professional students, while UF has approximately 17,500. Graduate
& professional education costs much more than undergraduate education due
to the smaller student: faculty ratios, etc. 
The grad & professional student enrollment differential is a likely
explanation for the 17% per capita funding differential.


2/12 3:59 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by spear90:

If I remember correctly, FSU and UF both have undergraduate
populations of approximately 32,000. That means that FSU has about 9,500
graduate and professional students, while UF has approximately 17,500. Graduate
& professional education costs much more than undergraduate education due
to the smaller student: faculty ratios, etc. 
The grad & professional student enrollment differential is a likely
explanation for the 17% per capita funding differential.




Yes, makes complete sense but I don't think NoleOne will want to look at this way.
2/12 4:12 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by TheBrickhouse:
From page 37...

Total appropriation (including special units):

UF=24.4%
FSU=13.1%

Population:

UF=49,589
FSU=41,710

By my math, for every $1.00 per student spent at FSU, $1.57 is spent per student at UF.

Excluding special units (most of which were granted by the state), that ratio goes down to $1.17 per student at UF.

Thank you.  And that doesn't even take into consideration the butchering that FSU received compared to UF last year for non-recurring.  

Apparently only Seminoles are capable of doing math. 
2/12 9:14 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by NoleOne


Originally posted by TheBrickhouse:
From page 37...

Total appropriation (including special units):

UF=24.4%
FSU=13.1%

Population:

UF=49,589
FSU=41,710

By my math, for every $1.00 per student spent at FSU, $1.57 is spent per student at UF.

Excluding special units (most of which were granted by the state), that ratio goes down to $1.17 per student at UF.

Thank you.  And that doesn't even take into consideration the butchering that FSU received compared to UF last year for non-recurring.  

Apparently only Seminoles are capable of doing math. 



Apparently you over exaggerated your numbers. Like I said no where close to double.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com



Posted on 2/13 1:19 AM | IP: Logged


I really don't understand the complaint.  UF tries to get the most it can get from the state, the federal government, corporations, research foundations, private donors, etc..  FSU does the same thing.  UF seems to be better at it.  If you don't like it, call for change at FSU.  This recent stuff is a great example - Barron rolls out a plan to make FSU a top 25 university from nowhere - this is clearly a reactionary move to the governor's proposal to give UF an extra $15m.  If FSU wants to be successful, Barron needs to be out in front of these issues, not simply reacting everytime UF tries to improve itself (which is what Machen gets paid to do by the way).  
2/13 4:02 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:



Apparently you over exaggerated your numbers. Like I said no where close to double.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


Exaggerated?  Read the numbers provided.  You just excluded the numbers you wanted to ignore.
2/13 7:46 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by uf96:

I really don't understand the complaint.  UF tries to get the most it can get from the state, the federal government, corporations, research foundations, private donors, etc..  FSU does the same thing.  UF seems to be better at it.  If you don't like it, call for change at FSU.  This recent stuff is a great example - Barron rolls out a plan to make FSU a top 25 university from nowhere - this is clearly a reactionary move to the governor's proposal to give UF an extra $15m.  If FSU wants to be successful, Barron needs to be out in front of these issues, not simply reacting everytime UF tries to improve itself (which is what Machen gets paid to do by the way).  
The complaint is actually NOT that UF tries to get the most it can from the state.  The complaint is that UF has always received more from the state and BECAUSE OF THIS, has had more success.  They then use the success as the only barometer for receiving more money and the state plays along with it.  UF, the school that receives the most per student, received the fewest cuts (if not the fewest, near the bottom) last year.  That doesn't make sense, financially.

Meanwhile, .FSU was recently ranked #1 most efficient National University.  UF was somewhere outside of the top 20, which was all that was listed in the article I saw.  But, because UF's president was going to retire and the governor (who has been CUTTING education spending) didn't want him to, the governor decided he wanted to increase UF's budget.

The only way that this proposal was a good move by Machen and "UF trying to improve itself" is if you think Machen threatened to retire just to get the governor to give UF more money.  

This isn't FSU trying to react to something great UF did to get more money, this is FSU reacting to the governor effectively "bribing" Machen to stay in his job.
2/13 9:46 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by NoleOne:

Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:



Apparently you over exaggerated your numbers. Like I said no where close to double.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


Exaggerated?  Read the numbers provided.  You just excluded the numbers you wanted to ignore.

You said double... that's an over exaggeration!  What numbers did you use to come up with double??
2/13 10:34 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by uf96:

I really don't understand the complaint.  UF tries to get the most it can get from the state, the federal government, corporations, research foundations, private donors, etc..  FSU does the same thing.  UF seems to be better at it.  If you don't like it, call for change at FSU.  This recent stuff is a great example - Barron rolls out a plan to make FSU a top 25 university from nowhere - this is clearly a reactionary move to the governor's proposal to give UF an extra $15m.  If FSU wants to be successful, Barron needs to be out in front of these issues, not simply reacting everytime UF tries to improve itself (which is what Machen gets paid to do by the way).  
Exactly what I've been saying!  FSU waits for UF to make noise and then tries to jump on the bandwagon.
2/13 10:37 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:





Originally posted by NoleOne:




Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:






Apparently you over exaggerated your numbers. Like I said no where close to double.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com




Exaggerated?  Read the numbers provided.  You just excluded the numbers you wanted to ignore.



You said double... that's an over exaggeration!  What numbers did you use to come up with double??




Read the thread.  I said nearly double.

Asked and answered.

This post was edited on 2/13 2:07 PM by NoleOne

2/13 2:04 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by NoleOne:





Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:








Originally posted by NoleOne:







Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:









Apparently you over exaggerated your numbers. Like I said no where close to double.

Posted from wireless.rivals.com





Exaggerated?  Read the numbers provided.  You just excluded the numbers you wanted to ignore.





You said double... that's an over exaggeration!  What numbers did you use to come up with double??






Read the thread.  I said nearly double.

Asked and answered.

This post was edited on 2/13 2:07 PM by NoleOne



57% more is nowhere close to "nearly double".  In fact that's a percent error of 21.5%. 
2/13 4:51 PM | IP: Logged
I'm glad that you have finally conceded my per-student calculation method. 

Since you have now graciously displayed some competency in basic math, care to justify the reduction of $735 per student in UF appropriations in 2012 compared to $1578 per student for FSU in 2012?
2/13 5:53 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by NoleOne
I'm glad that you have finally conceded my per-student calculation method. 

Since you have now graciously displayed some competency in basic math, care to justify the reduction of $735 per student in UF appropriations in 2012 compared to $1578 per student for FSU in 2012?



I was helping you with your calculation and I'm also glad that you have seen the error of your math ways (or maybe you used a calculator with low batteries?)

Tell me why you think FSU should continue to get more money per student than FIU?

Posted from wireless.rivals.com



Posted on 2/13 7:55 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by DolphinsHeatGators:

Originally posted by NoleOne
I'm glad that you have finally conceded my per-student calculation method. 

Since you have now graciously displayed some competency in basic math, care to justify the reduction of $735 per student in UF appropriations in 2012 compared to $1578 per student for FSU in 2012?



I was helping you with your calculation and I'm also glad that you have seen the error of your math ways (or maybe you used a calculator with low batteries?)

Tell me why you think FSU should continue to get more money per student than FIU?

Posted from wireless.rivals.com


This has been an interesting discussion.  Let's avoid the red herring here (in bold) and ascertain why UF has more per student funding than Florida State, especially when FSU is rated as being more fiscally efficient.  Once we figure this out we can then talk about the regional schools if anyone is so inclined.
2/13 11:18 PM | IP: Logged
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