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War Room - ACC scuttlebutt, DC search update, assistants (DC Update 6pm) - Dot Com 12/3 3:22 PM (show all)  Views 7439
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       With regard to the exit penalty - The Real Sonny 12/3 3:37 PM
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Originally posted by fsujd:






Originally posted by AllNoles:
BORASCH,

The deal with ESPN is not going to allow us to negotiate with anyone other than ESPN. There's no point to them locking us into a contract if we could just go negotiate with others during the life of the deal. This is why I always thought such a long deal, at such a bad price, was such a horrible idea.

Have you seen the ESPN-ACC contract? I will admit I have not, but it's been reported for a while that ESPN has the option to renegotiate the deal if certain things happen to the ACC (life FSU leaving), and that if the ACC changes or adds certain teams which increase value, then ESPN will redo the deal based on some formula. It's not an open re-negotiation, and it's not something that gives the ACC some great new deal.

A few other things. Pitt/Syracuse is already calculated into the current value, but they did not give us real value. The deal increased only becasue we aded inventory to the deal in terms of more games per team. I recall the breakdown of that deal showing we really got nothing by adding those teams.

Maryland and Louisville swapping won't change the deal.

I am not sure about this, but I think it's been reported that the ND 2.5 games/season adds less than a million per team per year. That's a nice bump, but we are still way outside the range of other teams.

Finally, I don't understand your points about ND. ND's contract was worth 15M a year back when other leagues/teams were making less than $7-8M a year. You can't pretend ND extending their deal past '15 will be for anything like ACC money. They'll get $25M or more. And if they join the ACC, they will give up a lont of money, which makes no sense for them to do.




You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory.  By the way those two were unmercifully skewered on here and both end up making bowl games, unlike one of the SEC additions.

The new ACC with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville and non-sanctioned UM and UNC would have 11 teams in bowls out of 14. 

Gene, has whipped up the Big 12 hopes again.  If it doesn't happen you guys might be busting his door down.



This post was edited on 12/4 12:20 AM by fsujd





fsujd:

Spin away.

But, and I know these are minor points that undermine your ACC spin:



  • didn't Pitt and Syracuse play in the Big East and the two SEC additions play in the SEC this year,
  • didn't Louisville and Pitt both lose to UCONN this year
  • UNC is sanctioned
  • Miami is not officially sanctioned yet
  • Only 7, not 8, ACC teams actually qualified this year for bowls games, the seventh qualifying ACC team self banned while the ACC replacement team begged after going 6-7




12/4 12:31 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by Nole4757:






Originally posted by fsujd:









Originally posted by AllNoles:
BORASCH,

The deal with ESPN is not going to allow us to negotiate with anyone other than ESPN. There's no point to them locking us into a contract if we could just go negotiate with others during the life of the deal. This is why I always thought such a long deal, at such a bad price, was such a horrible idea.

Have you seen the ESPN-ACC contract? I will admit I have not, but it's been reported for a while that ESPN has the option to renegotiate the deal if certain things happen to the ACC (life FSU leaving), and that if the ACC changes or adds certain teams which increase value, then ESPN will redo the deal based on some formula. It's not an open re-negotiation, and it's not something that gives the ACC some great new deal.

A few other things. Pitt/Syracuse is already calculated into the current value, but they did not give us real value. The deal increased only becasue we aded inventory to the deal in terms of more games per team. I recall the breakdown of that deal showing we really got nothing by adding those teams.

Maryland and Louisville swapping won't change the deal.

I am not sure about this, but I think it's been reported that the ND 2.5 games/season adds less than a million per team per year. That's a nice bump, but we are still way outside the range of other teams.

Finally, I don't understand your points about ND. ND's contract was worth 15M a year back when other leagues/teams were making less than $7-8M a year. You can't pretend ND extending their deal past '15 will be for anything like ACC money. They'll get $25M or more. And if they join the ACC, they will give up a lont of money, which makes no sense for them to do.






You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory.  By the way those two were unmercifully skewered on here and both end up making bowl games, unlike one of the SEC additions.

The new ACC with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville and non-sanctioned UM and UNC would have 11 teams in bowls out of 14. 

Gene, has whipped up the Big 12 hopes again.  If it doesn't happen you guys might be busting his door down.




This post was edited on 12/4 12:20 AM by fsujd







fsujd:

Spin away.

But, and I know these are minor points that undermine your ACC spin:




  • didn't Pitt and Syracuse play in the Big East and the two SEC additions play in the SEC this year,
  • didn't Louisville and Pitt both lose to UCONN this year
  • UNC is sanctioned
  • Miami is not officially sanctioned yet
  • Only 7, not 8, ACC teams actually qualified this year for bowls games, the seventh qualifying ACC team self banned while the ACC replacement team begged after going 6-7







To your points:

1.  Yes they did but still bowl eligible.  Syracuse beat Missouri.
2.  Yes but they are still bowl eligible.
3.   True.
4.    I am aware of that but who wants to type that explaination every time.  The point is they aren't playing in a bowl.
5.    If UM and UNC were bowl eligible GT would not have played in the championship game and finished the season 6-6, bowl eligible. 

Basically nothing you said changed my original post.

12/5 12:08 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by fsujd:






Originally posted by AllNoles:
BORASCH,

The deal with ESPN is not going to allow us to negotiate with anyone other than ESPN. There's no point to them locking us into a contract if we could just go negotiate with others during the life of the deal. This is why I always thought such a long deal, at such a bad price, was such a horrible idea.

Have you seen the ESPN-ACC contract? I will admit I have not, but it's been reported for a while that ESPN has the option to renegotiate the deal if certain things happen to the ACC (life FSU leaving), and that if the ACC changes or adds certain teams which increase value, then ESPN will redo the deal based on some formula. It's not an open re-negotiation, and it's not something that gives the ACC some great new deal.

A few other things. Pitt/Syracuse is already calculated into the current value, but they did not give us real value. The deal increased only becasue we aded inventory to the deal in terms of more games per team. I recall the breakdown of that deal showing we really got nothing by adding those teams.

Maryland and Louisville swapping won't change the deal.

I am not sure about this, but I think it's been reported that the ND 2.5 games/season adds less than a million per team per year. That's a nice bump, but we are still way outside the range of other teams.

Finally, I don't understand your points about ND. ND's contract was worth 15M a year back when other leagues/teams were making less than $7-8M a year. You can't pretend ND extending their deal past '15 will be for anything like ACC money. They'll get $25M or more. And if they join the ACC, they will give up a lont of money, which makes no sense for them to do.




You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory.  By the way those two were unmercifully skewered on here and both end up making bowl games, unlike one of the SEC additions.

The new ACC with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville and non-sanctioned UM and UNC would have 11 teams in bowls out of 14. 

Gene, has whipped up the Big 12 hopes again.  If it doesn't happen you guys might be busting his door down.



This post was edited on 12/4 12:20 AM by fsujd





The additional inventory from adding Pitt and Cuse was already included in the ESPN contract signed most recently.  So that is already part of the contract that was to pay $17 million per year average.  

It is unclear what effect, if any, us moving from 9 conference games to 8 will have.  I don't think the contract included a specific number of games, I think it just says ESPN gets ALL ACC football games, so the move from 9 to 8 may not do anything to the contract.  Obviously you are replacing a conference game with an OOC game and as long as that is a home OOC game ESPN still has the rights to it.  Given teams tend to play more home OOC games then away OOC games, the change from 9 to 8 could actually result in more games for ESPN, not less.  But the difference will be negligible in terms of numbers of games. 

Also, I did the math back when the agreement was made with ESPN with the additions of Pitt and Cuse and there WAS an increase in the per game value in comparison to our former ESPN deal.  So the entire increase in value was not due to more inventory alone.  However, the per game value increase was not that large and paled in comparison to the per game value increases in the Pac-12 and (at the time rumored but turned out true) Big 12 agreements. 

Our current contract with ESPN will need to be adjusted to account for the additional inventory of the Notre Dame deal.  Nobody on here has any idea what the language in the contract says in regards to those negotiations and just what they open up so I hope nobody on here pretends to know. It could be nothing more then determining the added value from those specific ND games for all sports, or it could open up larger negotiations into the overall value of the contract.  Same with the change of Maryland for Louisville, nobody on here has any factual basis to say what affect that has on our contract, if that will involve another financial adjustment, or if the contract just stays as is because it is only altering 1 team (it has been reported some of the conference deals only call for re-negotiation if 2 or more teams are changed).  We will have to wait and see what happens with the new negotiations and just how much is put on the table.

Once again, NOBODY ON HERE KNOWS THE LANGUAGE OF THE CONTRACT RELATED TO RE-NEGOTIATION

Just want to make sure we are all clear on that, it isn't directed at you FSUJD but for all of us in general.  We are discussing possibilities but in the end we don't really know a lot of the important variables.

Same goes with the 5 year look-in deal.  We have no idea how that works.  Some people want to act like it is 100% written to favor ESPN.  Some people want to act like it could be a saving grace for the ACC if some of the schools start playing really well.  The reality is none of us know a damn thing about how the look-in works and how much power it gives to each side in negotiations. 
12/4 12:09 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by fsujd:

You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory. 


The ACC lost some of that inventory and "bump" when they decided to switch from a 9 game conference schedule to an 8 game conference schedule.  For full disclosure though, FSU will more than make up for the lost revenue through the added annual home game a 4 game OOC schedule affords. 

12/4 3:22 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by = Iceman =:




Originally posted by fsujd:

You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory. 




The ACC lost some of that inventory and "bump" when they decided to switch from a 9 game conference schedule to an 8 game conference schedule.  For full disclosure though, FSU will more than make up for the lost revenue through the added annual home game a 4 game OOC schedule affords. 




That is true but when Louisville was added Swofford said the ACC/ESPN deal was not effected and never saw any word of it changing after announcement of 8 conference games. 
12/4 11:48 PM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by fsujd:



Originally posted by = Iceman =:




Originally posted by fsujd:

You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory. 



The ACC lost some of that inventory and "bump" when they decided to switch from a 9 game conference schedule to an 8 game conference schedule.  For full disclosure though, FSU will more than make up for the lost revenue through the added annual home game a 4 game OOC schedule affords. 



That is true but when Louisville was added Swofford said the ACC/ESPN deal was not effected and never saw any word of it changing after announcement of 8 conference games. 

It's a 7% reduction of total inventory for ESPN, including losing 1 game a year from FSU, VA Tech, Miami, Clemson, etc.  So, the contract goes down by the percentage loss of inventory.  It's not a huge deal though, b/c FSU will more than make it up by the extra home game every year. 

12/5 9:35 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by = Iceman =:

Originally posted by fsujd:



Originally posted by = Iceman =:




Originally posted by fsujd:

You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory. 



The ACC lost some of that inventory and "bump" when they decided to switch from a 9 game conference schedule to an 8 game conference schedule.  For full disclosure though, FSU will more than make up for the lost revenue through the added annual home game a 4 game OOC schedule affords. 



That is true but when Louisville was added Swofford said the ACC/ESPN deal was not effected and never saw any word of it changing after announcement of 8 conference games. 

It's a 7% reduction of total inventory for ESPN, including losing 1 game a year from FSU, VA Tech, Miami, Clemson, etc.  So, the contract goes down by the percentage loss of inventory.  It's not a huge deal though, b/c FSU will more than make it up by the extra home game every year. 


Not all games would have been televised, so I dont see how the contract goes down by 7%.
12/5 10:29 AM | IP: Logged
FSUJD,

Do you not recall what the last ESPN "lookin" got the league? A backloaded contract that required the ACC to give up essentially all of its inventory for minimal increase in revenue for an extended period of time. ESPN has zero incentive to significantly increase its payout to a conference it already possesses. It's not like FOX can swoop in during the lookin period and drive the ACC contract price higher. It's a closed negotiation.... One that ESPN holds all the power. The lookin is simply a method that the ACC can save face by saying "our new two homes games against ND annually can get us more money" and then sign a contract through 2030.

The lookin is a fraud. As long as FSU is in the ACC during the period of 2012 til probably at least 2022, we will be getting approximately $8mill less than the Big12 andPAC 12 and $10 to 15 million less annually than SEC and B1G. (including third tier rights) and no lookin clause is going to help that.
12/4 1:52 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by BigHieb:
FSUJD,

Do you not recall what the last ESPN "lookin" got the league? A backloaded contract that required the ACC to give up essentially all of its inventory for minimal increase in revenue for an extended period of time. ESPN has zero incentive to significantly increase its payout to a conference it already possesses. It's not like FOX can swoop in during the lookin period and drive the ACC contract price higher. It's a closed negotiation.... One that ESPN holds all the power. The lookin is simply a method that the ACC can save face by saying "our new two homes games against ND annually can get us more money" and then sign a contract through 2030.

The lookin is a fraud. As long as FSU is in the ACC during the period of 2012 til probably at least 2022, we will be getting approximately $8mill less than the Big12 andPAC 12 and $10 to 15 million less annually than SEC and B1G. (including third tier rights) and no lookin clause is going to help that.


As noted by another poster when Syracuse and Pitt were added that was not a "look in".  That provision came in as part of the re-negotiation when Cuse and Pitt were added.  The ACC got an average of $4 million per team increase when those two were added.  No one right now can say what the look in will bring.  Part of that depends on the ACC's performance of course, including FSU's.  We do know a bump is coming with the ND add.

One reason I don't buy a lot of these projections that are thrown around is they don't all pan out.  Pac 12 is an example.  I read in a Bay area paper that the Pac payout on TV right now is about 15 million (theirs is backloaded too like everybody else) and their future projections may be a little rosey because it includes the Pac 12 Network that has yet to be picked up by Direct TV and some other major carriers.

Big 10 says Maryland will get 12 million more in 2014 than it would in the ACC.  This year the Big 10 paid 24 million per school (and that is with Nebraska not getting full share), ACC 17 million for 7 mil difference.  So in less than two years that is going to almost double with two (really three with Nebraska full share) more schools to pay?  We'll see.

SEC paid 20 million this year.  So they are 3 million ahead.  CBS isn't indicating they will give big bump, if any.  It remains to be seen what SEC actually gets so I don't take 10-15 million gap at face value.  Its 3 right now.  That is what we know.
12/5 12:01 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by BigHieb:
FSUJD,

Do you not recall what the last ESPN "lookin" got the league? A backloaded contract that required the ACC to give up essentially all of its inventory for minimal increase in revenue for an extended period of time. ESPN has zero incentive to significantly increase its payout to a conference it already possesses. It's not like FOX can swoop in during the lookin period and drive the ACC contract price higher. It's a closed negotiation.... One that ESPN holds all the power. The lookin is simply a method that the ACC can save face by saying "our new two homes games against ND annually can get us more money" and then sign a contract through 2030.

The lookin is a fraud. As long as FSU is in the ACC during the period of 2012 til probably at least 2022, we will be getting approximately $8mill less than the Big12 andPAC 12 and $10 to 15 million less annually than SEC and B1G. (including third tier rights) and no lookin clause is going to help that.



That wasn't a lookin.  That was a new contract negotiation. 

And you have no idea how the look-in that is part of the new contract actually works, so don't pretend like you do.  You haven't read the contract and don't know the language and certainly don't know the legality of it.  Maybe it leaves all the negotiation power with ESPN, but for all you know if gives the ACC the ability to challenge the value of the contract in court as not being for fair market value if the value of the ACC changes between now and then.

What we know now are the values under the currently signed contracts for each conference.  We shouldn't hold out hope for some huge increase in 5 years because of the look-in aspect.  But people on here shouldn't dismiss something they have no information on or knowledge of given the fact you have no information on or knowledge of it.
12/4 12:14 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by AllNoles:
BORASCH,

The deal with ESPN is not going to allow us to negotiate with anyone other than ESPN. There's no point to them locking us into a contract if we could just go negotiate with others during the life of the deal. This is why I always thought such a long deal, at such a bad price, was such a horrible idea.

Have you seen the ESPN-ACC contract? I will admit I have not, but it's been reported for a while that ESPN has the option to renegotiate the deal if certain things happen to the ACC (life FSU leaving), and that if the ACC changes or adds certain teams which increase value, then ESPN will redo the deal based on some formula. It's not an open re-negotiation, and it's not something that gives the ACC some great new deal.

A few other things. Pitt/Syracuse is already calculated into the current value, but they did not give us real value. The deal increased only becasue we aded inventory to the deal in terms of more games per team. I recall the breakdown of that deal showing we really got nothing by adding those teams.

Maryland and Louisville swapping won't change the deal.

I am not sure about this, but I think it's been reported that the ND 2.5 games/season adds less than a million per team per year. That's a nice bump, but we are still way outside the range of other teams.

Finally, I don't understand your points about ND. ND's contract was worth 15M a year back when other leagues/teams were making less than $7-8M a year. You can't pretend ND extending their deal past '15 will be for anything like ACC money. They'll get $25M or more. And if they join the ACC, they will give up a lont of money, which makes no sense for them to do.


You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory.  By the way those two were unmercifully skewered on here and both end up making bowl games, unlike one of the SEC additions.

The new ACC with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville and non-sanctioned UM and UNC would have 11 teams in bowls out of 14. 

Gene, has whipped up the Big 12 hopes again.  If it doesn't happen you guys might be busting his door down.


This post was edited on 12/4 12:20 AM by fsujd

12/4 12:18 AM | IP: Logged
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