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Originally posted by 71/BORASCH/06:

Originally posted by whomp1111:

Originally posted by 71/BORASCH/06:

Originally posted by whomp1111:

What say you?   Also, please enlighten us on why you are so sure on ND being added to the ACC. I would think that FSU going to the SEC is more likely to happen than ND joining the ACC.

Plus, the agreement they made with the ACC was that they would eventually join the conference for football full-time.

Please provide poof of this agreement because this is the very first I have heard of this. 

No proof that can be linked. Like the "gentleman's agreement" in the SEC.
The so called gentemen's agreement is not a contract.  It;s not an agreement.  It's not enforceable.  If UF of USC or UGA decide to vote to allow in FSU, or Clemson, or GTech, they can.  It's more an alliance born of perceived self interest than anything else.

That's totally uncomparable to your claim, except insofar as any informal discussions about this issue are totally unenforceable, and if the ACC did this deal on ND's suggestion it may agree later, the ACC got punked.  A deal is what is contained in the written contract, nothing more.  And, the public statements by both parties contradict the very idea of such an agreement, even an informal and unenforceable one.

Another problem is you can see the mutual self interest between the SEC "gentlemen." There is no similar mutual self interest between the ACC and ND.  ND already has ALL IT WANTS in the current deal.  It locks in 5 games a year, making sure it can fill a schedule.  It only shares the revenue for half of them, which provides a basis for it's continued TV value as an independent.  It parks its non-revenue sports in an admittedly strong ACC for those sports.  It gets bowl deals it would not otherwise have, and won't get any more out of being a full football member.

For you to believe ND will join completely, you have to believe that it has a desire to give up it's storied independence, share money so it makes LESS than it will alone, and really get nothing in return, as the contract between it and the ACC locks in all the goodies for nothing for years to come.
11/28 2:18 PM | IP: Logged
People are starting to take about the ACC like we started talking about the Big East when we took UM and V-Tech. I think they are correct. In my opinion the ACC is on a death spiral. 

1. in next 24 months FSU and one other good team, maybe more leaves the ACC
2. in 5 years ACC is in the Big east, Mountain west, Conf USA play in of the tier II schools 

in 5 years there are 
3 classes of conferences
1. the haves
2. the have nots
3. the small schools you beat up at the beginning of each season 
Leagues like the Big east and the ACC will not even argue they are second tier in five years the difference will be so drastic it will be obvious. In five years we are not talking about 5 - 7 million a year difference in budgets but 100% differences in budgets. The FSU DC in 5 years will make more that Dukes, NC state, V-Techs head coach. 

I am still relatively hopeful we will be gone. Quite honestly it is all about money and we are worth a lot of money. We need to start looking to get out and jump when the opportunity presents itself. The ACC as a big league conference will not exist in 4-5 years. 
11/28 6:55 PM | IP: Logged
 


Originally posted by SemiNo.1e:
Dang Borasch, I've rarely seen so many posters try to tell somebody to stop being so arrogant, cocky and self indulgent. And your response is...to double down.



11/28 7:30 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by northvanole:
Correction to triciafoster.  Yes GT is founding member of the SEC (1933).  They left in the mid 60's over a big feud between Bobby Dodd and Bear Bryant over special treatment Bama got from officials - particularly with regard to one personal foul that the refs would not call.  Acrimony was very high and GT left the SEC - but it wasn't because of academics.  GT stayed independent for a few years, tried to get back into the SEC but was rejected, joined the non-football metro conference with FSU in 1976 and then dropped that for the ACC in 1978.  It is not inconceivable that they have some old time booster money that would prefer being in the SEC - GT does not need conference affiliation for its academic status.  



Where in the hell do you get all your knowledge?  Have you just been a die hard college football fan for 50 years or is there a book or website I can go to get this information?

I'm serious.  This is good stuff.
11/28 7:34 PM | IP: Logged
Dot,

Can we get an update on what Louisville's addition to the league means for FSU and the ACC? I know FSU/Clemson both wanted them instead of UConn so does this keep us here?

I am still praying to leave and the SEC stuff excited me...
11/28 7:37 PM | IP: Logged In the near future. 4 super conferences: big 12, pac 12, big 10, SEC. Conference champions= playoff system. If all 4 end up undefeated, do a lottery type selection as far as who plays who. It would eliminate the BCS all together. Just my opinion....

Posted from wireless.rivals.com

Posted on 11/28 8:20 PM | IP: Logged






Originally posted by Ngtdream:
Doesn't matter who they add to the ACC ... this conference is an anchor for FSU... one that is dragging us to the bottom of the ocean. When a No.3 team loses by 1 point and drops 10 in the polls, then never recovers over a period of 6 games with every other team below them losing some not once but twice and some getting blown out by non-rated teams and still remaining below us in the rankings should be a big clue to how big this anchor is. It's time to jump ship before it sinks into an abyss
.


Yes that is why shouldn't play Savannah nor Murray State anymore just like we use to not play any school that isn'y D1 or FBS these days........

I mean give it a rest the SEC want us over there so they can move the ball like they did teams this year to make sure LSU won and others.....

As soon as they do that to us just watch these boards......
11/28 9:38 PM | IP: Logged





Originally posted by rancekay:

It was a close call but yes I chose Florida State and I am very happy with my decision.  However the coaches from others schools in the SEC schools used the quality of their league in their recruiting of me.  For some it will not make a difference, but for others it will.  Regardless, the quality of the league you are in has an impact on which school you choose.

I had a large number of smaller schools that recruited me also but I wanted to compete against the highest competition I could.  I am positive the quality of competition is a factor in a kids decision as to which school he attends.

I am not sure why anyone could think otherwise.



Give me a break......
FSU has been top 5 to top 10 every year for 20 plus years.......

Go to the SEC if that is what is gonna be done but no need to make stuff up......

FSU has, will, and always will be a top draw in recruiting no matter what conference we are in.......PERIOD
11/28 9:42 PM | IP: Logged
The arrogant belief that you can continue to succeed forever without adapting to the world around you is a very dangerous one.  It's what leads to bohemoths falling.  Not that it's totally on point, but look at once world beating businesses who are about to go under.  Who would have thought 20 years ago that Sears would be about to fail?

The analysis is not all that different.  The world changed.  The market changed.  But Sears didn't change, at least not enough.  It made decisions for years based partially on the assumption that, well, it was Sears.  That was not enough.

I love FSU.  I think FSU has an amazing brand value.  I think it should remain at the forefront of college football, as well as other sports.  But to think FSU is going to remain on top just because it's FSU, even though it's in an increasingly less competitive arena and is falling further and further behind in the money battle, is ridiculous.  FSU can remain on top, but it's not assured a spot there.  It has to work and adapt and always be innovative.  It has not looked that way in years.
11/29 10:29 AM | IP: Logged

All I can tell you was in my personal situation it was brought up by several coaches.  Maybe my situation was unique, but I doubt it.  I still ended up selecting Florida State and I am glad I did, but the strength of the SEC for track was brought to my attention by several coaches. There are numerous factors involved in what caused me to choose Florida State and I am sure the same could be said for any 17 year old kid being recruited by large universities.  Regardless, what you may think competition is typically going to be a one of the larger factors in most kids choices in my oppinion. 


11/29 1:07 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by AllNoles:
The arrogant belief that you can continue to succeed forever without adapting to the world around you is a very dangerous one.  It's what leads to bohemoths falling.  Not that it's totally on point, but look at once world beating businesses who are about to go under.  Who would have thought 20 years ago that Sears would be about to fail?

The analysis is not all that different.  The world changed.  The market changed.  But Sears didn't change, at least not enough.  It made decisions for years based partially on the assumption that, well, it was Sears.  That was not enough.

I love FSU.  I think FSU has an amazing brand value.  I think it should remain at the forefront of college football, as well as other sports.  But to think FSU is going to remain on top just because it's FSU, even though it's in an increasingly less competitive arena and is falling further and further behind in the money battle, is ridiculous.  FSU can remain on top, but it's not assured a spot there.  It has to work and adapt and always be innovative.  It has not looked that way in years.

Well said.  I have contended this for some time yet many tend to believe that we will be able to live off of our past forever.  History has shown in countless ways that this is a dangerous way of thinking.
11/29 3:47 PM | IP: Logged
Rancekay your 100% correct. Listen to the recruits talk about why they selected their schools and the very best ones will include the level of competition in the equation. It's why the SEC overall is stronger. The current view is thats where the best athletes are playing. One more "C" I would add. The coaches. And for the most part, the best are where the cash is. More cash = higher expectations and standards.
11/29 4:07 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by AllNoles:
The arrogant belief that you can continue to succeed forever without adapting to the world around you is a very dangerous one.  It's what leads to bohemoths falling.  Not that it's totally on point, but look at once world beating businesses who are about to go under.  Who would have thought 20 years ago that Sears would be about to fail?

The analysis is not all that different.  The world changed.  The market changed.  But Sears didn't change, at least not enough.  It made decisions for years based partially on the assumption that, well, it was Sears.  That was not enough.

I love FSU.  I think FSU has an amazing brand value.  I think it should remain at the forefront of college football, as well as other sports.  But to think FSU is going to remain on top just because it's FSU, even though it's in an increasingly less competitive arena and is falling further and further behind in the money battle, is ridiculous.  FSU can remain on top, but it's not assured a spot there.  It has to work and adapt and always be innovative.  It has not looked that way in years.



Great post! BTTT
11/29 4:49 PM | IP: Logged It would make our rivalry game mean more and we can finally play UGA and SC regularly. I think we match up well with them and our recruiting would skyrocket because the other schools couldn't use the conference success against us anymore. UGA vs GT would have a whole new meaning. We'd pick up meaningful rivals in SC, UGA, UT, and Auburn. We could also hone our skills against AL and LSU. That is how we became Florida State! Let's Do IT!!!

Posted from wireless.rivals.com



Posted on 11/30 10:16 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by nutmegnole:



Originally posted by AllNoles:
The arrogant belief that you can continue to succeed forever without adapting to the world around you is a very dangerous one.  It's what leads to bohemoths falling.  Not that it's totally on point, but look at once world beating businesses who are about to go under.  Who would have thought 20 years ago that Sears would be about to fail?

The analysis is not all that different.  The world changed.  The market changed.  But Sears didn't change, at least not enough.  It made decisions for years based partially on the assumption that, well, it was Sears.  That was not enough.

I love FSU.  I think FSU has an amazing brand value.  I think it should remain at the forefront of college football, as well as other sports.  But to think FSU is going to remain on top just because it's FSU, even though it's in an increasingly less competitive arena and is falling further and further behind in the money battle, is ridiculous.  FSU can remain on top, but it's not assured a spot there.  It has to work and adapt and always be innovative.  It has not looked that way in years.
X2

12/1 1:47 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by AllNoles:
The arrogant belief that you can continue to succeed forever without adapting to the world around you is a very dangerous one.  It's what leads to bohemoths falling.  Not that it's totally on point, but look at once world beating businesses who are about to go under.  Who would have thought 20 years ago that Sears would be about to fail?

The analysis is not all that different.  The world changed.  The market changed.  But Sears didn't change, at least not enough.  It made decisions for years based partially on the assumption that, well, it was Sears.  That was not enough.

I love FSU.  I think FSU has an amazing brand value.  I think it should remain at the forefront of college football, as well as other sports.  But to think FSU is going to remain on top just because it's FSU, even though it's in an increasingly less competitive arena and is falling further and further behind in the money battle, is ridiculous.  FSU can remain on top, but it's not assured a spot there.  It has to work and adapt and always be innovative.  It has not looked that way in years.



It is all about the financial. Not only is FSU behind. We are behind by ridiculous proportions.



.
12/1 2:07 PM | IP: Logged
If there is another exit from the ACC this coming week as rumored, it will trigger every ACC school with football or TV market power to immediately campaign HARD with the SEC and/or the Big12. The contestants in this beauty pagent would involve FSU, Clem, VaTech, GaTech, UVa, BC, UM, Pitt, Syracuse, UNC, NCSt. The next mayhem commercial may feature the ACC. ND also reconsiders if this happens. $50M buyout also fails, dropping to the prior $20M.

We have no reason to expect the SEC to offer us. The SEC has already demonstrated a clear business plan on expansion: increase their geographic footprint and TV market power. The SEC is already covered in FL, and we add little monetary value, just good competition (which is not an SEC problem). Expect the SEC to ignore us and Clemson in favor of trying to get into N Carolina, Virginia, maybe bring GT back into the fold to nail down Atlanta, etc. Our shot seems to depend on Bama campaigning for us and maybe political influence in FL being put on UF. Long odds on that in my opinion.

We appear to add great financial value to the Big12 by being the "best available player" to get them into all of the FL TV markets, and I expect that is where we end up, but...

What if we bolt for the Big12 with other ACC schools to form what would become an eastern division of the conference, along with WVa and some dregs from the current Big12; then the PAC12 revisits expansion and successfully raids Texas and Oklahoma schools out of the Big12 after we make the move? We pay to get out of the ACC only to end up as bad or worse than we are now in a conference with little TV marketing power. If that happens, a second realignment among the remaining ACC, Big East and Big 12 schools might occur. Regardless, the long standing BCS schools still in the ACC, Big East AND Big12 at that point would be "the biggest losers" in college football realignment. We might be the biggest loser of all, given our current stature and history over the past 25 years.

Best case scenario: We get an SEC invite (unlikely I fear).
Second best case scenario: a Big12 invite, the conference holds together, and maybe gets ND in some capacity.
Worst case: described above or for some reason not even the Big12 invites us.
12/1 2:40 PM | IP: Logged

The Big 12 is not going to loose anybody prior to 2026 and at that point I woul assume the dye will be cast on where everybody is going to stay.  Big 12 makes the most since for us.  I think we need to negotiate the move with them asap to get us the best deal possible.  I would think the Big 12 will want at least one(Clemson) or three more to come with us(Clemson, Virginia Tech and NC State)
12/2 9:17 AM | IP: Logged

and maybe gets ND in some capacity (the ACC)

Why on earth would ND ever do that, especially after this year? They need no one, and now will not
for the forseeable future. Make all the money they do and keep it all.
ND to ACC in football is likely toast, considering how this year played out. They're definitely overrated, but it's
been a charmed season (nice work OU at home). They have just set themselves up for years to come unless rules
are changed that coercively requires them to be in a Conference.
They need no one's money and TV contracts.
12/4 12:06 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by BlackDrinkSinger:

and maybe gets ND in some capacity (the ACC)

Why on earth would ND ever do that, especially after this year? They need no one, and now will not
for the forseeable future. Make all the money they do and keep it all.
ND to ACC in football is likely toast, considering how this year played out. They're definitely overrated, but it's
been a charmed season (nice work OU at home). They have just set themselves up for years to come unless rules
are changed that coercively requires them to be in a Conference.
They need no one's money and TV contracts.
With a playoff coming they need a conference, I have no idea what conference but they will get left out in the cold without joining somewhere.  The rules are changing and being an independent won't get them squat.
12/4 12:25 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by a228454:
In the near future. 4 super conferences: big 12, pac 12, big 10, SEC. Conference champions= playoff system. If all 4 end up undefeated, do a lottery type selection as far as who plays who. It would eliminate the BCS all together. Just my opinion....

Posted from wireless.rivals.com




Agreed. Decide it on the field.
12/4 10:06 AM | IP: Logged
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