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Great update, thanks Gene!
12/3 7:37 PM | IP: Logged
I admittedly do not know much about Ellis Johnson, can anyone explain to me why Southern Miss was so terrible this year after having 18 consecutive winning seasons? Just curious....I know coordinators sometimes aren't successful head coaches but I was hoping someone could shed some light on the mishap at USM this year.....TIA
12/3 7:46 PM | IP: Logged

Northwestern State chose not to renew Peveto's contract due to the bad record.  The news release I read certainly made it sound like the school's choice, not Peveto's.  News story dated 11/20/12.
12/3 7:52 PM | IP: Logged
No way B. Foster comes... No way... Not sure he would be the right choice anyway... No offense
12/3 7:54 PM | IP: Logged
There would be panic in Blacksburg if Foster was even mentioned. I seriously doubt he is being overlooked.
12/3 8:01 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by 71/BORASCH/06:




Originally posted by FLYINGNOLE:

Not sure why flying to many of the Big 12 schools is much different than flying up north to Boston or Virginia?



Plane costs are more expensive to Big 12 schools, other than Dallas or Austin.


It really isn't much of a difference to the majority of places.  It partly depends on where you fly into, do you go to the closest airport even if it is more expensive, or go a little further away and take a bus?  This is a search done on Expedia using Friday, January 25th with a Sunday return.  

TLH to:

Charlotte - $300
Raleigh - $400
Greensboro - $400

Raliegh is closest to NC State, Duke, and UNC, Greensboro is closest to Wake, but Charlotte is cheapest and from Charlotte to Wake is a 1 hour drive, Charlotte to Chapel Hill is 2 hours, Raleigh slightly further.  Does $100 less per person make it worth it to fly into Charlotte and bus it to all those schools?  I would think so given it can't cost much per person to rent a bus.  I don't know what FSU typically does but let's assume to use the cheapest flights.

Clemson (Greenville) - $413

Syracuse - $400

Boston - $300

Louisville - $450

The teams we would play every year would be 2 using the North Carolina airports, Clemson, Syracuse, Boston, Louisville, and Miami (although we obviously don't fly to them except every other year).  Flying to D.C. was easy and about the same cost as Boston, but we won't be playing Maryland any more.

For the teams we don't play every year, you have 2 other teams using the North Carolina airports.  Then you have UVA, VT, Pitt, and as of now GT. 

Charlottesville (UVA) is $400.

Roanoake (VT) - $400

Pitt - $400-450

Atlanta - We can drive there, but they may be gone soon and be replaced by Cincy or UConn.


In the Big 12, assuming us and Clemson join, you can keep the costs down by flying a little further away and then taking a bus for 1-3 hours.  Here are the costs of flights:

San Antonio (1 hour from Austin) - $400
 
Dallas (can be used for TCU who is right there and Baylor, who is 1.5 hours away, and could be used for Texas who is 3 hours away) - $250

Lubbock (TT) - $500 (one of the most expensive, but its been said Texas and TT will want to stay in the same division, so realistically we would likely only play at TT once every 4 years)

Oklahoma City - $470 - Would be used for both OU and OSU, HOWEVER, from Dallas to OU and OSU is less then 3 hours drive.  Considering Dallas is a $250 flight, it wouldn't cost much at all in comparison to get buses and drive the 3 hours.  A 3 hour bus ride after a fairly short flight is not a big deal, especially when we don't fly into places on the same day as the game.

Morgantown (WV) - $580, however, Pittsburgh is just over 1 hour away driving.  So you can fly into Pitt for $100-200 less and then drive.

Des Moines (Iowa State) - $400-450 (when I did this search in the fall, this flight surprisingly was only like $300 so not sure whats up with it)

Kansas City (KU and KState) - $450

If in the Big 12 you would assume we would have Clemson, WV in our division, then probably the Kansas schools and Iowa State.  The other main possibility would be giving us TCU and Baylor from Texas in place of the Kansas schools. 

Using Charlotte for all 4 NC schools (cheapest flight but then a 1-2 hour drive), Dallas for the Oklahoma schools, San Antonio for UT, Pittsburgh for WV, removing Clemson since they are a wash, forgetting about Miami as we are likely to keep playing them regardless, and not taking into consideration GT since we drive there and they may be leaving;

You have average flight costs of (I used the lowest numbers from above for all flights):

ACC - $360

Big 12 - $360

Now you will obviously have additional driving expenses in the Big 12 beyond what you would in the ACC, but getting a bus and putting 40-50 people on it is not that expensive on a per person basis.  Overall, the Big 12 is going to cost more in travel costs, but keep in mind the majority of Big 12 areas the costs of the team hotels are going to be less so that will offset some of the extra transportation costs.

I don't know how every FSU sports team travels or how often, I mainly just know about football.  But overall, it really isn't some huge difference in travel costs. 
12/3 8:03 PM | IP: Logged

Don't understand the knocks on Greg Hudson.  He fielded pretty good defenses at ECU considering the talent he was working with. I thought our linebackers played well this year, especially the middle linebackers.  Vince is always stout against the run and Smith is all over the field whenever he is in.  Moody is a converted safety in his first year playing LB.  And Jones always has a ton of tackles, leads the team in tackles.  Smith is 3rd and Vince is 4th.
12/3 8:05 PM | IP: Logged

At this point Bob Shoop from Vandy and Ellis Johnson are probably my top 2. 

Shoop has had Vandy ranked in the top 20 in yards given up per play his 2 years there, and the year before he arrived they ranked in the 70s or 80s.  He took a bunch of VANDY players and made them into a legit defense.  And he is an outstanding secondary coach.  I don't know about his recruiting ability, but everything I know about him I like.
12/3 8:10 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by jkool5:

Don't understand the knocks on Greg Hudson.  He fielded pretty good defenses at ECU considering the talent he was working with. I thought our linebackers played well this year, especially the middle linebackers.  Vince is always stout against the run and Smith is all over the field whenever he is in.  Moody is a converted safety in his first year playing LB.  And Jones always has a ton of tackles, leads the team in tackles.  Smith is 3rd and Vince is 4th.
People are making it out that Hudson was the reason for mediocre LB play this year, when, in fact, it's just not true.....Bradham left, Christian hasn't lived up to the hype and I can't remember Moody's name being called for more than a handful of solid plays this year.....Vince has had a solid year, that is for sure.....
12/3 8:16 PM | IP: Logged
Add me to the list that would love E. Johnson.  I actually think he would be an upgrade over Stoops.  I loved his defense at SC and could only imagine what he would do with FSU's talent.
12/3 8:16 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by nolezfan81:





Originally posted by jkool5:

Don't understand the knocks on Greg Hudson.  He fielded pretty good defenses at ECU considering the talent he was working with. I thought our linebackers played well this year, especially the middle linebackers.  Vince is always stout against the run and Smith is all over the field whenever he is in.  Moody is a converted safety in his first year playing LB.  And Jones always has a ton of tackles, leads the team in tackles.  Smith is 3rd and Vince is 4th.


People are making it out that Hudson was the reason for mediocre LB play this year, when, in fact, it's just not true.....Bradham left, Christian hasn't lived up to the hype and I can't remember Moody's name being called for more than a handful of solid plays this year.....Vince has had a solid year, that is for sure.....




No, Hudson's LB's haven't been very good in his 3 years thus far. He coaches them, and when they don't perform it's on him.
12/3 8:19 PM | IP: Logged

I'm guessing the statement that Fisher made of giving up play calling was a smoke signal....

you would think that the 0 points in the second half against a hapless GT D was enough evidence....
12/3 8:21 PM | IP: Logged

I'm sure Hudson isn't the first choice for Jimbo and with some of the names being mentioned, it's understandable. But for some on here to say that he isn't or wouldn't be a good DC is ridiculous.  I find it hard to believe that he would go from being a credible DC to all of a sudden a terrible LB coach.  It doesn't make sense, he probably had big plans for these linebackers and was unable to make it happen because of Stoops' scheme-just a thougt.
12/3 8:29 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by seinfeld101:
Add me to the list that would love E. Johnson.  I actually think he would be an upgrade over Stoops.  I loved his defense at SC and could only imagine what he would do with FSU's talent.



After getting fired after only a year, Johnson could be in for a let down. Question would be, does he still have that fire in the belly?


.
12/3 8:32 PM | IP: Logged


We should dump UF off the schedule.  All these years they have given us the middle finger to joining the SEC. Let us return the favor.
12/3 8:35 PM | IP: Logged
anyword on Eliot's move to Ky???  tomahawknation.com and coachingsearch.com are both reporting that Eliot has accepted the DC position under Stoops.
12/3 8:45 PM | IP: Logged
Someone actually said Miami and a clear shot ata MNC! Have you seen that dumpster fire? And that's before massive sanctions. They haven't even made an ACCCG yet and you are concerned that they have a clear path to the MNC? If FSU and Clumspn leave, no ACC school will ever play for a MNC game due to SOS.
12/3 8:47 PM | IP: Logged
FSU's DC search aka "As The Stomach Turns."
12/3 8:49 PM | IP: Logged

If hired could Ellis Johnson signel something else...
12/3 8:55 PM | IP: Logged
If you have even a small liking for TURNOVERS, then LEAVITT is your guy... he put together warrior defenses using the scrap leftovers in the state of Florida, think what he would do with this states best athletes.  He's also amazing at identifying and reeling in talent--look at how many of those scraps he turned into high draft picks and NFL stars.

I think he would come just to show up USF... the question is, are we keen enough and gutsy enough to go get him?  He's an INSANE madman with more passion for football than just about anyone you've ever met---and really, is there anyone that could argue FSU is lacking passion at times?

I will guarantee you he keeps the choking and slapping to a minimum under Jimbo's watch... he will probably be limited to just headbutting players with helmets on. 
12/3 8:58 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by SavvysNole:






Originally posted by nolezfan81:








Originally posted by jkool5:

Don't understand the knocks on Greg Hudson.  He fielded pretty good defenses at ECU considering the talent he was working with. I thought our linebackers played well this year, especially the middle linebackers.  Vince is always stout against the run and Smith is all over the field whenever he is in.  Moody is a converted safety in his first year playing LB.  And Jones always has a ton of tackles, leads the team in tackles.  Smith is 3rd and Vince is 4th.




People are making it out that Hudson was the reason for mediocre LB play this year, when, in fact, it's just not true.....Bradham left, Christian hasn't lived up to the hype and I can't remember Moody's name being called for more than a handful of solid plays this year.....Vince has had a solid year, that is for sure.....






No, Hudson's LB's haven't been very good in his 3 years thus far. He coaches them, and when they don't perform it's on him.



If three linebackers are in the top 4 on our team for total tackles I call that performing.  After all, a linebacker's job is to make tackles.  Also, it is entirely possible for him to be a better coordinator than position coach, so however you feel about his performance as linebacker coach does not mean he isn't a good defensive coordinator.  This was posted by a ECU fan on USF's board in a thread about Skip Holtz being fired:

"Skip is a nice guy, but the main reason he was successful here at ECU was Greg Hudson. Hudson's defense won our games, and he is at FSU and they are doing pretty good. Our offense under Skip was one of the most predictable that you will see. We would call out the plays to each other before the snap and were right most of the time."
12/3 9:02 PM | IP: Logged

I want out of the acc but i don't think the big12 is the answer. way too much traveling for fsu imo.

This post was edited on 12/3 9:15 PM by copnole

12/3 9:14 PM | IP: Logged
Seems like Travis Jones would be the goto pick. He has NFL experience and is reported to be a hell of a recruiter, plus the Saints may be making some changes where we could get him and there is history with Jimbo.
12/3 9:41 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by FSU91:

Dot:

Why did you just quote some Tech spokesman from Friday and not the Tech president who gave direct comments/answers on Saturday night?  His remarks were also in the Atlanta-Journal Constitution:

<i>Georgia Tech president G.P. "Bud" Peterson met reports and rumors about the school leaving the ACC for the Big Ten head on Saturday night.


"Not true. Not true," Peterson said prior to the ACC Championship game. "We're happy in the ACC. We're staying."



Internet and radio reports cited unnamed sources or repeated rumors that the school will follow Maryland out of the ACC and to the Big Ten, one reporting that the school will hold a news conference Monday to announce its departure.



"We're not going anywhere," said Peterson, speaking outside his suite at Bank of America Stadium.</i>

This is straight from the horses mouth.  Do you think that he is lying?





Oh, well if the Tech President said it than it must be true.
12/3 9:54 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by Pben:
Bob Shoop is someone I know personally, in 3 yrs at WM he put 8 guys in the NFL, including Derek Cox, Adrian Tracy and Sean Lissemore, and in 2009 WM had an absolute shutdown defense.

He uses a base 4-3, and utilizes LBs very agressively, his scheme relies on shutdown CBs, because it tends to leave them out there on an island, he had that at WM, and from what I could follow this yr, he is beginning to get that at Vandy.

He did have a lot of trouble with option teams, like Ga Southern and JMU.

Overall I think he'd be a diamond in the rough kind of hire. His brother used to be the OC at UNC.

His wife is a fitness instructor, nice lady.

Ok thats all I know on him.
Sounds alot like Mickey Andrews style.
12/3 10:05 PM | IP: Logged
nolesrule74, Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12/3 11:13 PM | IP: Logged

Well they have accomplished one thing for dang sure.  They got me confused.
12/3 11:33 PM | IP: Logged
I would be very disappointed in the Johnson hire. He is 60+ years old and probably losing his fire, was the CO-DC NOT THE ONLY DC at South Carolina. South Carolina has continued its dominating defense even with the loss of Johnson, hinting that he was not the sole reason behind it's success, and has turned a championship Southern Miss squad into a defeated winless program. Not terribly impressed by the defenses he threw onto the field at Miss. State. 

Seems to me this would be a "safe" hire. Rather than take a chance on somebody like DJ who could turn out to be somebody very special, we go for the experienced older "safe" choice. blah





This post was edited on 12/4 12:09 AM by CChri5

12/4 12:05 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by AllNoles:
BORASCH,

The deal with ESPN is not going to allow us to negotiate with anyone other than ESPN. There's no point to them locking us into a contract if we could just go negotiate with others during the life of the deal. This is why I always thought such a long deal, at such a bad price, was such a horrible idea.

Have you seen the ESPN-ACC contract? I will admit I have not, but it's been reported for a while that ESPN has the option to renegotiate the deal if certain things happen to the ACC (life FSU leaving), and that if the ACC changes or adds certain teams which increase value, then ESPN will redo the deal based on some formula. It's not an open re-negotiation, and it's not something that gives the ACC some great new deal.

A few other things. Pitt/Syracuse is already calculated into the current value, but they did not give us real value. The deal increased only becasue we aded inventory to the deal in terms of more games per team. I recall the breakdown of that deal showing we really got nothing by adding those teams.

Maryland and Louisville swapping won't change the deal.

I am not sure about this, but I think it's been reported that the ND 2.5 games/season adds less than a million per team per year. That's a nice bump, but we are still way outside the range of other teams.

Finally, I don't understand your points about ND. ND's contract was worth 15M a year back when other leagues/teams were making less than $7-8M a year. You can't pretend ND extending their deal past '15 will be for anything like ACC money. They'll get $25M or more. And if they join the ACC, they will give up a lont of money, which makes no sense for them to do.


You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory.  By the way those two were unmercifully skewered on here and both end up making bowl games, unlike one of the SEC additions.

The new ACC with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville and non-sanctioned UM and UNC would have 11 teams in bowls out of 14. 

Gene, has whipped up the Big 12 hopes again.  If it doesn't happen you guys might be busting his door down.


This post was edited on 12/4 12:20 AM by fsujd

12/4 12:18 AM | IP: Logged

call me crazy but i would like to see jim leavitt as the DC. yes i know he may not be the best human being out there but the man can flat out coach. He would bring intensity, nasty aggressive style defense. Look at what he did at USF with there personal imagine what he could do with the talent currently at FSU.
12/4 1:40 AM | IP: Logged
FSUJD,

Do you not recall what the last ESPN "lookin" got the league? A backloaded contract that required the ACC to give up essentially all of its inventory for minimal increase in revenue for an extended period of time. ESPN has zero incentive to significantly increase its payout to a conference it already possesses. It's not like FOX can swoop in during the lookin period and drive the ACC contract price higher. It's a closed negotiation.... One that ESPN holds all the power. The lookin is simply a method that the ACC can save face by saying "our new two homes games against ND annually can get us more money" and then sign a contract through 2030.

The lookin is a fraud. As long as FSU is in the ACC during the period of 2012 til probably at least 2022, we will be getting approximately $8mill less than the Big12 andPAC 12 and $10 to 15 million less annually than SEC and B1G. (including third tier rights) and no lookin clause is going to help that.
12/4 1:52 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by firemanj1:
Seems like Travis Jones would be the goto pick. He has NFL experience and is reported to be a hell of a recruiter, plus the Saints may be making some changes where we could get him and there is history with Jimbo.



Him, Sunseri, and Leavitt are the ones with NFL experience.  Sunseri also has a history with Jimbo.  I like Leavitt, but it's probably one of the other 2 guys.  We'll get a good one.  If you want fire and aggressiveness Leavitt is the guy, but having history together favors the other 2. 
12/4 2:10 AM | IP: Logged
Bob Shoop or Ellis Johnson.  Losing coordinators sucks but those are 2 guys I feel may be a upgrade.  And as far as recruiting, if you can't recruit to FSU then something is wrong.
12/4 3:05 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by copnole:

I want out of the acc but i don't think the big12 is the answer. way too much traveling for fsu imo.

Are you aware that based on FSU's 2012 travel schedule, the average student athlete across all sports would travel an average of 53 minutes more to Big XII away games than ACC away games?  Is that "too much"?

12/4 3:16 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by fsujd:

You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory. 


The ACC lost some of that inventory and "bump" when they decided to switch from a 9 game conference schedule to an 8 game conference schedule.  For full disclosure though, FSU will more than make up for the lost revenue through the added annual home game a 4 game OOC schedule affords. 

12/4 3:22 AM | IP: Logged
I wish we would hire Bobby Petrino. He is a snake but a great football coach. Not really much worse than many others who are coaching but he does know how to win. Maybe he has learned a lesson finally....some folks are just slow.
12/4 6:40 AM | IP: Logged
Why would ANY conference want Miami, much less a major conference.  They are an abortion and their fan base (i.e., TV) is among the weakest out there.
12/4 7:16 AM | IP: Logged
Miami has a better, and more loyal, fan base outside of south Florida. They are a strong TV draw like us, but not as loyal a local fan base. You would think being in close proximity to 3.5 million they would be able to sell out every game, but are lucky to get half. Imagine if FSU had that many fans within a 90 minute drive like Hogtown and Palm Beach, Broward and Dade. The TV draw alone is what makes Miami desirable and they do have a quality school, outside of how the athletic department has been managed.

That said, they have probably been on probation as many times as they have won rings. Is the upside worth all the problems they always bring?

Funny how FSU and Clemson are the initial schools wanted by the Big XII and Miami being the third choice if this report is true.
12/4 9:02 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by 71/BORASCH/06:




Originally posted by FLYINGNOLE:

Not sure why flying to many of the Big 12 schools is much different than flying up north to Boston or Virginia?



Plane costs are more expensive to Big 12 schools, other than Dallas or Austin.


I would suspect most are charter flights if not all. Distance is what costs in a charter flight, unless your going out of the country.
12/4 9:13 AM | IP: Logged
If we can bring Clemson, Miami and VaTech with us to the Big 12, that would be awesome. The Big 12 will have imported some very significant rivalries and re-created some old ones (VaTech vs. WVU).

12/4 11:37 AM | IP: Logged

No matter the conference talk I hear, it always comes down to one thing for me. I simply want FSU to be in the SEC. I feel like it would make wins that much more exciting and losses more palatable. Anyone with me on this?

12/4 11:39 AM | IP: Logged

Originally posted by tcnoles4life:

No matter the conference talk I hear, it always comes down to one thing for me. I simply want FSU to be in the SEC. I feel like it would make wins that much more exciting and losses more palatable. Anyone with me on this?


Of course, but this doesn't appear to be a realistic scenario as of right now.

As Dot said, the only way they could possibly desire to invite FSU is if they want to block Big 12 or Big 10 expansion into the South. If the SEC feels threatened by this, they may simply invite FSU out of necessity.

Hope it happens, but don't hold your breath.
12/4 11:45 AM | IP: Logged
Thanks for the update we can always count on you to give us as much info as possible!
12/4 11:46 AM | IP: Logged

No thanks re: Bob Shoop.

12/4 11:59 AM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by fsujd:






Originally posted by AllNoles:
BORASCH,

The deal with ESPN is not going to allow us to negotiate with anyone other than ESPN. There's no point to them locking us into a contract if we could just go negotiate with others during the life of the deal. This is why I always thought such a long deal, at such a bad price, was such a horrible idea.

Have you seen the ESPN-ACC contract? I will admit I have not, but it's been reported for a while that ESPN has the option to renegotiate the deal if certain things happen to the ACC (life FSU leaving), and that if the ACC changes or adds certain teams which increase value, then ESPN will redo the deal based on some formula. It's not an open re-negotiation, and it's not something that gives the ACC some great new deal.

A few other things. Pitt/Syracuse is already calculated into the current value, but they did not give us real value. The deal increased only becasue we aded inventory to the deal in terms of more games per team. I recall the breakdown of that deal showing we really got nothing by adding those teams.

Maryland and Louisville swapping won't change the deal.

I am not sure about this, but I think it's been reported that the ND 2.5 games/season adds less than a million per team per year. That's a nice bump, but we are still way outside the range of other teams.

Finally, I don't understand your points about ND. ND's contract was worth 15M a year back when other leagues/teams were making less than $7-8M a year. You can't pretend ND extending their deal past '15 will be for anything like ACC money. They'll get $25M or more. And if they join the ACC, they will give up a lont of money, which makes no sense for them to do.




You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory.  By the way those two were unmercifully skewered on here and both end up making bowl games, unlike one of the SEC additions.

The new ACC with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville and non-sanctioned UM and UNC would have 11 teams in bowls out of 14. 

Gene, has whipped up the Big 12 hopes again.  If it doesn't happen you guys might be busting his door down.



This post was edited on 12/4 12:20 AM by fsujd





The additional inventory from adding Pitt and Cuse was already included in the ESPN contract signed most recently.  So that is already part of the contract that was to pay $17 million per year average.  

It is unclear what effect, if any, us moving from 9 conference games to 8 will have.  I don't think the contract included a specific number of games, I think it just says ESPN gets ALL ACC football games, so the move from 9 to 8 may not do anything to the contract.  Obviously you are replacing a conference game with an OOC game and as long as that is a home OOC game ESPN still has the rights to it.  Given teams tend to play more home OOC games then away OOC games, the change from 9 to 8 could actually result in more games for ESPN, not less.  But the difference will be negligible in terms of numbers of games. 

Also, I did the math back when the agreement was made with ESPN with the additions of Pitt and Cuse and there WAS an increase in the per game value in comparison to our former ESPN deal.  So the entire increase in value was not due to more inventory alone.  However, the per game value increase was not that large and paled in comparison to the per game value increases in the Pac-12 and (at the time rumored but turned out true) Big 12 agreements. 

Our current contract with ESPN will need to be adjusted to account for the additional inventory of the Notre Dame deal.  Nobody on here has any idea what the language in the contract says in regards to those negotiations and just what they open up so I hope nobody on here pretends to know. It could be nothing more then determining the added value from those specific ND games for all sports, or it could open up larger negotiations into the overall value of the contract.  Same with the change of Maryland for Louisville, nobody on here has any factual basis to say what affect that has on our contract, if that will involve another financial adjustment, or if the contract just stays as is because it is only altering 1 team (it has been reported some of the conference deals only call for re-negotiation if 2 or more teams are changed).  We will have to wait and see what happens with the new negotiations and just how much is put on the table.

Once again, NOBODY ON HERE KNOWS THE LANGUAGE OF THE CONTRACT RELATED TO RE-NEGOTIATION

Just want to make sure we are all clear on that, it isn't directed at you FSUJD but for all of us in general.  We are discussing possibilities but in the end we don't really know a lot of the important variables.

Same goes with the 5 year look-in deal.  We have no idea how that works.  Some people want to act like it is 100% written to favor ESPN.  Some people want to act like it could be a saving grace for the ACC if some of the schools start playing really well.  The reality is none of us know a damn thing about how the look-in works and how much power it gives to each side in negotiations. 
12/4 12:09 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by BigHieb:
FSUJD,

Do you not recall what the last ESPN "lookin" got the league? A backloaded contract that required the ACC to give up essentially all of its inventory for minimal increase in revenue for an extended period of time. ESPN has zero incentive to significantly increase its payout to a conference it already possesses. It's not like FOX can swoop in during the lookin period and drive the ACC contract price higher. It's a closed negotiation.... One that ESPN holds all the power. The lookin is simply a method that the ACC can save face by saying "our new two homes games against ND annually can get us more money" and then sign a contract through 2030.

The lookin is a fraud. As long as FSU is in the ACC during the period of 2012 til probably at least 2022, we will be getting approximately $8mill less than the Big12 andPAC 12 and $10 to 15 million less annually than SEC and B1G. (including third tier rights) and no lookin clause is going to help that.



That wasn't a lookin.  That was a new contract negotiation. 

And you have no idea how the look-in that is part of the new contract actually works, so don't pretend like you do.  You haven't read the contract and don't know the language and certainly don't know the legality of it.  Maybe it leaves all the negotiation power with ESPN, but for all you know if gives the ACC the ability to challenge the value of the contract in court as not being for fair market value if the value of the ACC changes between now and then.

What we know now are the values under the currently signed contracts for each conference.  We shouldn't hold out hope for some huge increase in 5 years because of the look-in aspect.  But people on here shouldn't dismiss something they have no information on or knowledge of given the fact you have no information on or knowledge of it.
12/4 12:14 PM | IP: Logged



Originally posted by fsujd:






Originally posted by AllNoles:
BORASCH,

The deal with ESPN is not going to allow us to negotiate with anyone other than ESPN. There's no point to them locking us into a contract if we could just go negotiate with others during the life of the deal. This is why I always thought such a long deal, at such a bad price, was such a horrible idea.

Have you seen the ESPN-ACC contract? I will admit I have not, but it's been reported for a while that ESPN has the option to renegotiate the deal if certain things happen to the ACC (life FSU leaving), and that if the ACC changes or adds certain teams which increase value, then ESPN will redo the deal based on some formula. It's not an open re-negotiation, and it's not something that gives the ACC some great new deal.

A few other things. Pitt/Syracuse is already calculated into the current value, but they did not give us real value. The deal increased only becasue we aded inventory to the deal in terms of more games per team. I recall the breakdown of that deal showing we really got nothing by adding those teams.

Maryland and Louisville swapping won't change the deal.

I am not sure about this, but I think it's been reported that the ND 2.5 games/season adds less than a million per team per year. That's a nice bump, but we are still way outside the range of other teams.

Finally, I don't understand your points about ND. ND's contract was worth 15M a year back when other leagues/teams were making less than $7-8M a year. You can't pretend ND extending their deal past '15 will be for anything like ACC money. They'll get $25M or more. And if they join the ACC, they will give up a lont of money, which makes no sense for them to do.




You forgot to mention the 5 year look ins the ACC will get.  If we got more money for more inventory then we got a bump from Syracuse and Pitt because they created more inventory.  By the way those two were unmercifully skewered on here and both end up making bowl games, unlike one of the SEC additions.

The new ACC with Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville and non-sanctioned UM and UNC would have 11 teams in bowls out of 14. 

Gene, has whipped up the Big 12 hopes again.  If it doesn't happen you guys might be busting his door down.



This post was edited on 12/4 12:20 AM by fsujd





fsujd:

Spin away.

But, and I know these are minor points that undermine your ACC spin:



  • didn't Pitt and Syracuse play in the Big East and the two SEC additions play in the SEC this year,
  • didn't Louisville and Pitt both lose to UCONN this year
  • UNC is sanctioned
  • Miami is not officially sanctioned yet
  • Only 7, not 8, ACC teams actually qualified this year for bowls games, the seventh qualifying ACC team self banned while the ACC replacement team begged after going 6-7




12/4 12:31 PM | IP: Logged

Will we know today?
12/4 1:10 PM | IP: Logged

Sorry if we've been around this barn already, but could someone explain why UF doesn't want us in the SEC? Thanks---Griz
12/4 2:42 PM | IP: Logged

I'm ready for an 8 hour drive to watch the Noles in KU's Allen Field House. Bring it on!
12/4 3:04 PM | IP: Logged
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